[Opinion] EQ Next - Game Changers/Breakers

[Grahm]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blackrock Depths sucked. And have you ever gotten lost in a WoW instance? I haven't.

replying as I read, but if you have then you're an idiot. Only reason you got lost in Lower Guk is because you didn't have M to push to show you where to go...

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That model looks fucking stupid

Looks like some shitty korean knock off

I hope they don't take this WOW/Korean style of armor on.. stuff is so god damn ugly

I think what the picture is trying to show is that we are going to be able to create and model our own graphics in EQN. Last year they added Player Studio to EQ2, where players can create models for items, equipment, furniture, and even houses, to be submitted and possibly selected to be added in the game. I think this is what they mean when they say EQN will be the biggest sandbox ever created. I can see us being able to make our own spell graphics and particle effects as well. At one point (can't remember the source but I believe it was official) they say we'll be able to light fire to a forest and burn it completely down. We'll probably be able to create our own quests and dungeons too.

[August]

Originally Posted by Grahm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

replying as I read, but if you have then you're an idiot. Only reason you got lost in Lower Guk is because you didn't have M to push to show you where to go...

Correct - it's not like the zone is so super complex. There is a path down and a path up. And if you know lguk well you could be dropped anywhere and know how to get to the exit. Bad lightning and unfamiliarity doesn't lend to a comparison w/ a WoW instance where you have a map and everything is bright as day.

[Rhuma7]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think what the picture is trying to show is that we are going to be able to create and model our own graphics in EQN. Last year they added Player Studio to EQ2, where players can create models for items, equipment, furniture, and even houses, to be submitted and possibly selected to be added in the game. I think this is what they mean when they say EQN will be the biggest sandbox ever created. I can see us being able to make our own spell graphics and particle effects as well. At one point (can't remember the source but I believe it was official) they say we'll be able to light fire to a forest and burn it completely down. We'll probably be able to create our own quests and dungeons too.

Yeah, sounds like a real fucking reason to play.

Tired as shit of gimmicks. Just give me a good fucking game to play and cut the "look at this cool feature, were so fucking hip"

You know what WoW's gimmick was? Polish.

Why is it so hard for companies to see what their doing wrong?

Do they honestly think people play WoW because its easy or they have some magic powder they sprinkled on the code?

Make a game, fill it with shit to do and make the shit work. Dont start your game with some ground breaking awesomely new piece of shit feature that nobody but some hipster with a 3d art degree can get some use out of.

99% of the people who are going to use that feature are going to make vagina shields and dick swords.

God sometimes I wish I could make my own MMO so I can make something that isnt buggy as shit filled with retarded gimmicks that has the things players want to play.

[enr4ged]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't understand the hate towards instanced zones. Just because WoW instanticized the dungeons doesn't mean that it was a bad idea.

I mean, look at the way we (or at least, I) play P1999. I look for zones that are not that populated so I can get a group / get decent EXP. I skipped unrest almost entirely this leveling up path because often times there were too many people. And, if I had a group, some 6 people, that was awesome. Usually, though, I was wishing that we were the ONLY group in the zone so we could have more pulls. Sure, the higher level camp is there and that's fine, as long as they don't pull from us.

This extrapolates into the end game as well. We have a bunch of 'hardcore' raiders out there who want to slay dragons, and we all can't. Well, if things were instanced, we certainly could.

I'll give you some reasons why I love NON-instanced content.

1. I LOVE seeing other people in the game... it's an MMO... "Fuck me, right?" I don't like going into a dungeon and suddenly I'm in my own world, this is also precisely why I can't play single player RPG's anymore.
2. Instance crowding can be solved in some ways that games have come out with recently. I think the best trade off between instance and non instance that I've seen thus far is games that incorporate limited number of instances. For example say Lower guk has a capacity of 45 with an over fill of about 15. You could start splitting it up into a separate instance once you get to around 45 and the overfill can choose a new instance or the main instance. You lose some of the non-instance feel, but you can still get into a dungeon with other people.

3. Dungeons are more fun to me with a lot of people/groups doing their own thing at different parts of the dungeon. I like encountering other people and seeing what they are up to or just having some fun chats with random people.

4. Loot - With instanced dungeons you generally get an overflow of loot since all players can do their own instance as many times as they want to get an item. Loot becomes less rare, and plus its not even that valuable at that point. If the game is created with TRADEABLE loot (I LOVE when all/most loot is tradeable) then you can BUY stuff from others, so its not so bad when you can't "get your camp"

5. non-instanced dungeons kind of create a system where you know which camps are better and they feel more dynamic as suddenly it's not a "queue for instance, plow to end with the best/fastest route, rinse, repeat" you get dynamism in the dungeons, where people are excited when they get better/more fun/camps. And if not they go to a sub par camp and wait.

[August]

Originally Posted by enr4ged [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll give you some reasons why I love NON-instanced content.

1. I LOVE seeing other people in the game... it's an MMO... "Fuck me, right?" I don't like going into a dungeon and suddenly I'm in my own world, this is also precisely why I can't play single player RPG's anymore.
2. Instance crowding can be solved in some ways that games have come out with recently. I think the best trade off between instance and non instance that I've seen thus far is games that incorporate limited number of instances. For example say Lower guk has a capacity of 45 with an over fill of about 15. You could start splitting it up into a separate instance once you get to around 45 and the overfill can choose a new instance or the main instance. You lose some of the non-instance feel, but you can still get into a dungeon with other people.

3. Dungeons are more fun to me with a lot of people/groups doing their own thing at different parts of the dungeon. I like encountering other people and seeing what they are up to or just having some fun chats with random people.

4. Loot - With instanced dungeons you generally get an overflow of loot since all players can do their own instance as many times as they want to get an item. Loot becomes less rare, and plus its not even that valuable at that point. If the game is created with TRADEABLE loot (I LOVE when all/most loot is tradeable) then you can BUY stuff from others, so its not so bad when you can't "get your camp"

5. non-instanced dungeons kind of create a system where you know which camps are better and they feel more dynamic as suddenly it's not a "queue for instance, plow to end with the best/fastest route, rinse, repeat" you get dynamism in the dungeons, where people are excited when they get better/more fun/camps. And if not they go to a sub par camp and wait.

I don't disagree with you, and if you read more than just that one snippet you would see i've made the same points, and how to solve them in an instanced environment, specifically I have mentioned (2) - and btw, that is still an 'instance'. Once again, most people are comparing 'instances' to post-TBC WoW linear instances that are a 15 minute joy ride of face rolling. That's not what I'm advocating for.

[Cheeb]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think what the picture is trying to show is that we are going to be able to create and model our own graphics in EQN. Last year they added Player Studio to EQ2, where players can create models for items, equipment, furniture, and even houses, to be submitted and possibly selected to be added in the game. I think this is what they mean when they say EQN will be the biggest sandbox ever created. I can see us being able to make our own spell graphics and particle effects as well. At one point (can't remember the source but I believe it was official) they say we'll be able to light fire to a forest and burn it completely down. We'll probably be able to create our own quests and dungeons too.

If EQN is like this I give up all hope in modern game developers. Gary's Mod with swords and sparkles, awesome.

[Kiwaukee]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Things I would like to see:
A large expansive world that is not easily traversed. (I hated EQ2 for making everything a bell click away)

No or fewer gear sets for higher end gear. I really hate seeing everyone wear the same crap.

Items with unique abilities. One of the things I really liked about old EQ versus newer games were that some items quested or obtained actually augmented game play style.

There really is a million things I would like to add but since I doubt any EQ Devs are reading this will leave it at that.

Finally I know this may derail things but many of you forget or don't realize EQ created instancing. WoW went a bit overboard but I think some of the aspects of their use of instancing was good. I'm mainly talking about use of instancing to drive story and temporarily alter static areas. Anyone remember that epicly long chain of quests in Dragonblight during WoLK? Where some dragons wrecked shit infront of the LK's castle and you have to bust some skulls in Undercity (horde side).

I agree with travel. I like the server cooperative gates to convenience, like the stuff in Isle of Quel Da'nas in WoW. Having the server work together to build a portal that transports people from a rally point to the front lines of the latest content is AWESOME in my opinion. Having a clickable instant port from a hub to anywhere in the world is not.

The quests in WoTLK were using phasing, not instancing. It's sort of the same, in that people in different phases often had different content in front of them in the quest area, but the players were still fundamentally in the same place and had the same content everywhere else in the zone. I think phasing was a nice addition to WoW because the content is quest driven. Phasing in a game that's less quest driven would seemingly only serve the purpose of making it easier for people to farm or acquire gear, and that's what I'd advocate trying to avoid. Need that competition.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't disagree with you, and if you read more than just that one snippet you would see i've made the same points, and how to solve them in an instanced environment, specifically I have mentioned (2) - and btw, that is still an 'instance'. Once again, most people are comparing 'instances' to post-TBC WoW linear instances that are a 15 minute joy ride of face rolling. That's not what I'm advocating for.

Time limited instances in a "world" - what is the justification within the game world for it? It breaks the 4th wall without even acknowledging it - as the instances themselves did. Notice how the "solutions" created to solve the problems the original bad "solution" created get more and more inelegant and more and more "gamey"? This is what those of us advocating no instance worlds are saying. This breaking of immersion goes on and on. It's an ugly solution to a non-existent problem by people who don't understand, respect, or care for the game world. Any instance does this - it is an illogical, de-immersive departure from the continuity of the game world. An exception would be where the game world supports it, as in a sci-fi or overtly "online" setting such as we had in the now defunct Otherland game, and where it makes perfect sense and instead of fracturing the world actually strengthens it.

Mind you, once gamers accepted bright yellow question marks and exclamation marks hovering over NPC heads, it was all downhill in that sense. As I know I keep saying, we are talking about fundamentally different types of games. This is why many of us are back in EQ - the "modern" mindset of game design has lost its way.

This isn't just rhetoric, at least for me. I spent 3 years on a next-gen MMO arguing continually these points, and from this perspective. During one heated discussion on a design point, I had the epiphany that we were all talking about different types of games. Developers now look at game design as a "craft". You have a bunch of mechanics and tools, like little blocks, and your job is to fit them together to suit the project. There are accepted structures and mechanics. If you dare to question the "industry practice", and point out that maybe some of those blocks are questionable, you are a pariah. I'm not kidding, it's really that way. It's now a bunch of pompous nerds enforcing intellectual and creative reductionism. There are exceptions, but they are viewed as mavericks.

Unfortunately, the only MMO that plays by the rules that I want (or close to it), is classic EQ. And there are a lot of people who feel the same way.

[Rooj]

I don't even like the "make 2nd instance of overpopulated zone" thing. Why can't people just deal with it, lol.