The Bard class needs work

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by gloinz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hey dawg i know ur bad as a bard hence why you made this thread im not questioning that

competent bards however can use highsun to kill any caster on the server barring a mage mayb

Honestly right now I could embarrass the fuck out of you by telling you exactly how you kill a bard with a wizard thru denons thru highsun. skean like tstaff always a problem but barring skean procs definitely could rip a bard to shreds with this ruleset and all your spells landing like lures of fire and cold line.

But I'm not here to tell you how to play your class, I wont tell any of you how it's done but shit was done on live daily on Rallos and Sullon when your fire and cold spells were all a MAYBE for landing and not the sure thing that they are here.

P.S. I don't have highsun, nor would I spam it to beat people if I did. If you use highsun to win your cheating in my mind because in 1999 that shit didn't work. All i'm asking for is classic bard, to play real EQ not spam pillar of frost(unlimited range exploit) and rely on instant gate pots and conflag wands like a weak blue player such as yourself does to pvp. I want 1999 pvp not some badly coded version that allows blues to easy zerg pvp and win by numbers and exploits/hacks instead of skill.

[gloinz]

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly right now I could embarrass the fuck out of you by telling you exactly how you kill a bard with a wizard thru denons thru highsun. skean like tstaff always a problem but barring skean procs definitely could rip a bard to shreds with this ruleset and all your spells landing like lures of fire and cold line.
.

i'd take your advice but...

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. I don't have highsun,

so you made a thread about bard balance when you don't even have all the abilities of a bard that's like an enchanter bitching when they don't have dispell or rapture

ur a funny guy in the dumb way

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On live the Bard was easily ranked at the bottom of any pvp ladder during the Kunark/Vellious era. But here there are some additional nerf's that literally cripple the class, have no fear I will elaborate breaking down live from p99.

Live: Solon's Bewitching Bravura

This spell would charm an npc's up to level 51 for up to 1 min, and took 60 mana

Project 1999: Solon's Bewitching Bravura

This spell works exactly like it's lower lvl version Solon' song of Siren's last up to 3 ticks, but still takes the mana. This is utterly useless in pvp, due to the bug on pets that makes me be right next to my opponent to make my pet attack them.

Live: Selo's Accelerando

On live in 1999 each tick of this spell removed snare or root's applied.

Project 1999: Selo's Accelerando

Here it does not lol.

Live: Chant of Frost, Chant of Flame, Fufil's Curtailing Chant, Brusco's Bombastic Bellow,and Denon's Desperate Dirge.

Did not suffer a 33% reduction on Dmg. There almost worthless as it is, easily dispelled and landed poorly on live.

Project 1999: Chant of Frost, Chant of Flame, Fufil's Curtailing Chant, Brusco's Bombastic Bellow,and Denon's Desperate Dirge.

All equally worthless but here they suffer the 33% dmg reduction and still land poorly.

Live: Highsun

Landed poorly had crap range, only useable outdoors and at daytime.

Project 1999:

Lands on everyone still can only be used outdoors or at daytime.

So for all those con's I get the ability to shadowstep my target away from me strip two buffs/stun for less than a second during the daytime or in certain zones. Then add in Unlimited range Pillar's, And unresistable earth pets and you get a class that went from hard to impossible in pvp.

Sure when your 60 and epic'd with VP or Zord gear you can annoy some people but most blues can even escape you. All the reasons why I quit mine and use him as a gear collector.

find proof, send to nilbog.

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by gloinz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'd take your advice but...



so you made a thread about bard balance when you don't even have all the abilities of a bard that's like an enchanter bitching when they don't have dispell or rapture

ur a funny guy in the dumb way

I don't consider highsun landing unresistably a bard ability, it's a broken exploit, just like the pillar of frost you exploit daily YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE IT!

Now Strip enchantment and Rapture are enchanter abilities, but Highsun a daytime only spell that never landed on live I don't count as a Bard ability.

Here's Highsun

Description


1: Cancel Magic (9)
2: Cancel Magic (9)
3: Stun (1.00 sec)
4: Shadowstep



Details Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View


Mana: 0 Skill: Wind
Casting Time: 3 Recast Time: 0
Fizzle Time: 0 Resist: Magic
Range: 75 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Fizzle Adj: 28
Deletable: Yes Interruptable: Yes
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Detrimental
Category: Shadow Step Source: Live 05/23

^Notice MR based no Modifer which =120-140 mr zero chance of landing just like a wizard casting tishan's clash Good luck


Solon's charm is broken duration is suppoused to be a min you can just check zam's and see that, it's currently set to 3 ticks which=18 secs.

Selo's did break root and snare in 1999 I can also provide evidence of that.

Here's accounts of player's talking about it
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________
Root?
Has anyone tested Accelerando and Chain since the latest patch to see if they still break root? A druid site was reporting that snare no longer does, which... John Kim
kim@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxx Send Email Jul 30, 1999
8:13 pm
Re: Root?
Actually John, I spent last night in HighHold fighting gnolls, and yes, Selo's still breaks root outdoors at least. Don't have chain yet and haven't tried... Michal Hobson
given@xxx.xxxx Send Email Jul 31, 1999
2:15 am
Re: Root?
I used Selos to break a root just yesterday. Outside - fighting ghouls - got rooted and party member (a druid) also rooted - so I fired off Selos and we both... James Schuldes
jgs@xxx.xxx.xxxx Send Email Aug 1, 1999
2:29 pm
Re: Root?
i tried breaking root with selos in lower guk. it does NOT break root indoors anymore. never tried using chain to break root though. Shada Silverleaf, Level... Garramone, Michael (C...
Michael.Garramone@xxx... Send Email Aug 1, 1999
7:39 pm
Re: Root?
Last night I tested out Accelerando vs root and it still works. I still can see the root Icon but I can move. Syren Wind of Rathe ... From: John Kim... CMai
CMai@xxx.xxxx Send Email Aug 2, 1999
3:03 pm
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________________

Dot's worked crazily but here is the best they can be described...

------------------------------
September 13, 1999
------------------------------


DoT Changes:
- If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT
spell works.
- If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there
is no change to how a DoT spell works.
- If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied
(happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it
would have taken.
- DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the
monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much
damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves
for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage
then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more
then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it
would have before the patch.
__________________________________________________ __________________
Later this was changed to pvp as well not the 33% flat reduction which only effected nukes and never songs as they were already shitty.

I know wtf I'm talking about.

P.S. Thanks Sirkin I will send all of this to nilbog with a prayer

[mtb tripper]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

find proof, send to nilbog.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Faerie]

I think people would have taken you more seriously if you had simply stated what you felt was wrong and why (with some evidence) instead of whining about your class needing upgraded. When you make wild claims like the bard class here being "literally crippled", you call attention to your own inadequacies, which outshine any factual merit your post may contain.

Maybe we should have responded to your post more constructively, but in our defense you made it really easy not to. That said:

Selo's broke root and snare on live, but I feel it shouldn't here for balance reasons. Bards are a hugely powerful pvp class already, and certainly don't need this change.

Highsun should be made much, much easier to resist. I don't remember if the time restrictions applied in pvp or not, but they certainly did for pve.

I don't understand what you're trying to say about the 33% dot reduction, and the evidence you posted seems to be in favor of keeping it. Or do all dots affect PCs for full damage regardless of their movement, with just bard dots being affected? Or is this a custom change that Null put in, limiting dots in pvp for balance reasons in an unclassic way?

I don't remember if the 39 charm lasted a up to full minute back then, but there were certainly times when it wouldn't last a full tick.

Do you have more evidence to back these things up?

[mtb tripper]

Originally Posted by Faerie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think people would have taken you more seriously if you had simply stated what you felt was wrong and why (with some evidence) instead of whining about your class needing upgraded. When you make wild claims like the bard class here being "literally crippled", you call attention to your own inadequacies, which outshine any factual merit your post may contain.

Maybe we should have responded to your post more constructively, but in our defense you made it really easy not to. That said:

Selo's broke root and snare on live, but I feel it shouldn't here for balance reasons. Bards are a hugely powerful pvp class already, and certainly don't need this change.

Highsun should be made much, much easier to resist. I don't remember if the time restrictions applied in pvp or not, but they certainly did for pve.

I don't understand what you're trying to say about the 33% dot reduction, and the evidence you posted seems to be in favor of keeping it. Or do all dots affect PCs for full damage regardless of their movement, with just bard dots being affected? Or is this a custom change that Null put in, limiting dots in pvp for balance reasons in an unclassic way?

I don't remember if the 39 charm lasted a up to full minute back then, but there were certainly times when it wouldn't last a full tick.

Do you have more evidence to back these things up?

[Nirgon]

Pretty sure bard song dots got missed by pvp damage nerf like he says

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure bard song dots got missed by pvp damage nerf like he says

We probably shouldn't be using "it's classic!" as a reason to change anything when it comes to pvp resists, because we're not using a classic system. What we should be doing is finding ways to make our non-classic system even more balanced/fun.

So I think bard dots should land for full damage in pvp. Bards aren't dps, and I can't think of a reason for keeping their dots nerfed.

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by Faerie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think people would have taken you more seriously if you had simply stated what you felt was wrong and why (with some evidence) instead of whining about your class needing upgraded. When you make wild claims like the bard class here being "literally crippled", you call attention to your own inadequacies, which outshine any factual merit your post may contain.

Maybe we should have responded to your post more constructively, but in our defense you made it really easy not to. That said:

Selo's broke root and snare on live, but I feel it shouldn't here for balance reasons. Bards are a hugely powerful pvp class already, and certainly don't need this change.

Highsun should be made much, much easier to resist. I don't remember if the time restrictions applied in pvp or not, but they certainly did for pve.

I don't understand what you're trying to say about the 33% dot reduction, and the evidence you posted seems to be in favor of keeping it. Or do all dots affect PCs for full damage regardless of their movement, with just bard dots being affected? Or is this a custom change that Null put in, limiting dots in pvp for balance reasons in an unclassic way?

I don't remember if the 39 charm lasted a up to full minute back then, but there were certainly times when it wouldn't last a full tick.

Do you have more evidence to back these things up?

I never asked for my class to be upgraded I asked for my class to be classic BIG DIFFERENCE

I also asked in MANY threads for highsun to be nerfed to it's correct state ya know the ability YOU ALL ARE WHINING ABOUT!

Here is Solon's
•Scroll:1.Song: Solon's Bravura

•Classes:◦Bard level 39


•Duration: 1 min
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=750
There's the link to prove it check quick facts on the right, THERE IT IS!

How the fuck you think Fansy trained anyone with spell that lasted only 1-18 secs not even possible.

Basically dot's on live did MORE DMG if you stood still and LESS DMG if you ran. Nuke's were given a 33% reduction right before Kunark release because people were getting almost one shotted by Ice Comet's.

^Neither of these two rules applied to BARD'S sony stated it was because songs weren't spells and followed there own set of rules, all 3 sec cast time 3 tick duration, no recast internal cooldown.

And Bard's were never considered a hugely powerful class on live till PoP because highsun wasn't even in a bard's slot EVER shit never landed. the only time a bard used highsun was with a shaman malo'ing or enc tashing jesus this shit was actually common knowledge on Rallos and Sullon back in the day I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

I don't have to act or respond constructively AT ALL because unlike you I have one huge thing going for me, I KNOW WTF I'M TALKING ABOUT!