not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[Splorf22]

100% agree with Deajay. Unlike Zephany I don't think the removal of variance will immediately lead to the promised land. 500 people on the spawn point "competing" for FTE is just as retarded as the way TMO/FE "compete" with tracking. However, the new no-variance game has 3 huge advantages: its fair, there is no tracking, and and above all it's classic.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And yet, why would there be 500? If so many are on Trakanon, what is to stop the rest of the raid population from taking VS, Innoruuk, CT, Maestro at the exact same time? Why give yourself a 20% chance on Trak when you could have a 80-100% chance somewhere else? I feel as if it's very easy to think through the consequences of No Variance + Repops paradigm, but few have actually done so.

Repops have already been done, the results are tried and true. The only thing that could alter the results of a respawn is if the respawn was KNOWN, instead of <15min warning, as its been done in the past. However, assuming targets are spread out enough that only one will spawn at a time, every guild who wishes to compete would be fighting for FTE at the same time because timers would be known. Now you'll have some guilds that compete for some mobs and not others, and if you have multiple spawns you'll see the guilds either split into two raids or prioritize one target over the other. You bring nothing new to the table with your repop idea, to the contrary of your final comment.

[falkun]

I said spawn times would be known, where do I say unknown?

No variance and repops are two seperate entities, unless you are discussing staggered respawns which has also been discussed ad nauseum.

No variance is discussed in this thread. Repops have gone 80+% TMO, 15-25% FE, 5-10% everyone else for the last 4 or 5. Part of these results are due to the minimal foreknowledge about the respawn, so TMO and FE with their higher body count and superior mobilization batphone and respond the fastest. If respawns were more widely known, the guilds with lesser mobilization skills could prepare better, but then you enter the realm of theory where TMO/FE would have similar time to also prepare better and that might keep the status quo.

You've still not brought anything new to the argument, even going as far as admitting this was discussed "months ago".

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now please answer my question and tell me why there would be 500 people on one raid boss when they're basically all spawning at the same time, every time? If there are, under that scenario, it's because the mob's loot is commensurately greater and to be expected.

As for this comment that alludes to every spawn being part of a full respawn, I don't think the community has consensus on that. My opinion of community push is towards respawns every 2 weeks or once per month, with the spawns in between on a non-variance or largely reduced variance timer.

Large sources of dissent from that opinion come from TMO and FE. A notable example is Jeremy who advocates that every mob should be coded to spawn X amount of times per year, with no definite start and stop to the window other than "a 7-day mob should spawn 52x per year".

Everyone agrees FTE shouts (basic, not some ellaborate "First with Sufficient Force" shouts) should be implemented.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Falkun, I really have enjoyed your posts in this topic to this point but you don't seem to be able to grasp this extraordinarily simple point:

If there is No Variance, and if there are Repops, then basically every raid mob will pop at what is practically the same time over a course of weeks and months. How are the enormous Tracking guilds to compete with this on an hour-for-hour basis?

No Variance and Repops are what is Classic. There is absolutely no gainsaying that. Additionally, it would free numerous raid mobs for engagement by "other" raid forces than TMO and FE, something that is imminently desirable for P99.

What exactly is your objection to this model?

Not every raid mob on a respawn would be killed at exactly the same time, therefore as long as every spawn cycle is not a full repop, mob timers will diverge to a degree large enough that multiple forces will be able to contest every spawn until the next repop realigns all spawns onto the exact same timer. Even a timer of a few minutes apart would allow a sharp raid-force to mobilize to the second (or third, etc.) in adequate time.

[falkun]

Over the last 3 repops (the ones that happened a few weeks apart from each other), the tracking guilds averaged every mob except Faydedar, the L52s (Naggy, Vox, or both), Maestro, Yael, and Overseer of Air. Divinity did some good work and got Talendar on the last repop. That's 3-5 out of the 20ish that the tracking guilds do not get. While getting 3-5 per respawn is more than the non-tracking guilds typically get in a given week, it is not a "significant" portion of the raid content by any means. Also, raid targets still do not die at exactly the same time, so even without variance the next respawn will be more spread out than the repop assuming the next spawn is itself not a repop.

No variance raids with every target spawning at the same time will go as they do now without warning, or the non-tracking guilds will each get 1 target or less before they are out-mobilized to the second target by guilds with better mobilization.

No variance raids with targets spread out enough that everyone has time to mobilize will have all interested guilds sitting on spawn spamming temperate flux staves with the duct tape until spawn and trying for FTE. This shit-stain will stay until people get tired of it and either stop competing or move to a rotation system.

The best thing to help the repop scene would be making VP a non-train zone. Right now it is advantageous for the VP guilds to kill non-VP targets first and then duke it out in VP. If you were not allowed to train in VP, you'd see people fighting for FTE on PD before they ran to kill Trak lest their competition snipe PD while they are uncontested at Trak.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets get one thing straight, the Gaming Experience from 1999 cannot be recreated. Maps, the understanding of game mechanics, spell descriptions, quest guides....all of it is posted on the internet. The feeling of new and unknown, of being a neophite "In Their World Now" is gone, and you can't get it back. What you can do is, as much as possible, provide a server "with the look and feel of the old interface and several modifications making game mechanics similar to how the game used to be."

If you wanted to have players have the "new, unknown world" experience with P99, why not make Kunark dragons have over 32khps and encounters with additional raid mechanics beyond "tank+spank" (ok, so some have "stack resists to avoid AE")? Setting raid mechanics to those of 10 years ago means the strategies are already published, the locations are published, the rewards are published. Mav, you are picking a line for classic vs. non-classic because it benefits you. From a non-biased standpoint, seeing classic mechanics (mob levels, items, ATK and AC formulae) until you get to multi-group content seems rather counter intuitive to what was experienced for the previous 45 levels. You can have a classic experience or classic mechanics, but assuming you've played EverQuest before, you'll never be a neophite in their world again.

it doesn't benefit me at all. having to spend time tracking isn't a benefit it's a detriment, but if you think having 200 people sitting on a mob fighting them is fun more power to you.

if you noticed i said remove variance when velious is released, which is more in line with a classic experience then forcing people to fight FTE battles for all the major bosses, which is just plain retarded.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence that you yourself have reported in this very post is contradictory to this statement. "While getting 3-5 per respawn is more than the non-tracking guilds typically get in a given week," and does not even consider the consequences of continuing such a fair policy.


Classic, and less of a shit-stain than Jeremy and co. winning practically everything due to an in all ways retarded mechanic that never existed in EverQuest and should not exist on P99.

There is absolutely no reason for Variance to exist on P99 and any arguments in its favor are absurd.

pretty sure you have made your stance abundantly clear over the 60 some pages of this thread, but the majority of us more informed players on this server disagree with your stance. Keep up the crusade!

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are a fucking liar.

Tracking is an enormous benefit to you and TMO, according to every piece of evidence assembled on the topic. It never was an issue before P99, though, which may be why some of your guilty conscience is apparently coming back to haunt you.

this isn't the rants section. like everyone has pointed out even without tracking on server repops we get the next highest amount of mobs outside TMO. guilty conscious? Lol i obviousy was a lot more successful in terms of end game raiding on live and p99 than you have been. you have no idea what you are talking about and your ignorance is the closest thing to classic you have shown.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have yet to hear a single non-absurd argument for the continuation of Variance on this server. Please feel free to contribute.

please feel free to start your own thread for no one to agree with you.