not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[quido]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You still haven't at all mentioned how this non-classic mechanic doesn't favor the zerg.

If Jeremy gets tired you've got another 15 people behind him waiting to earn DKP. When Skope gets tired there's only 5.

I know all of this makes sense in your head, but you've either not explained it well enough or you're unaware or ignoring the obvious flaws here.

Anyway, that all hinges on this question:

What makes you think they'll do anything at all?

I already said that it does favor the zerg, just not as much as the previous system. We may have more people ready to step up and track, but I still don't think it would be enough to sustain what is necessary for such changes.

I think my proposal would lower the bar for tracking, not raise it. TMO wouldn't track every target 24 hours a day 365 days a year. We would resort to a system of spot-checking stuff.

Loraen's idea was interesting though.

[quido]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some would say from your number of posts that you already are! (well the same could be said of me hehe). Anyway you'd have to get multiple ips; it's not impossible but its a level beyond what most people can do.

Instead of having instructions on guild websites telling us how to normalize ventrilo output, you're going to see tutorials on doing exactly this.

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Benefit:

I'm sorry, this isn't live. There's too many hardcore motherfuckers here - you will never be able to emulate the classic cooperation you guys remember and desire under these circumstances. Tell Nilbog to open another box or two. You're wallowing in hopeful ignorance if you really think removing variance altogether is a good trade-off.

That, and the fact that Velious is WAY overdue does not help the matter at all. Damn if you guys can't stand the horseshit why do you play here?? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Like the high top Guilds on live were any different than here?

[Skope]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I already said that it does favor the zerg, just not as much as the previous system. We may have more people ready to step up and track, but I still don't think it would be enough to sustain what is necessary for such changes.

I think my proposal would lower the bar for tracking, not raise it. TMO wouldn't track every target 24 hours a day 365 days a year. We would resort to a system of spot-checking stuff.

Loraen's idea was interesting though.

Unless I'm not remembering correctly, wasn't the whole 'don't artificially favor the zerg' part of nilbog's posts in here?

And answer my second question first!

*given that this thread will inevitably hit RnF, I'd figure I'll pitch in.

Jeremy, I remember you being two people at once.

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[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That, and the fact that Velious is WAY overdue does not help the matter at all. Damn if you guys can't stand the horseshit why do you play here?? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Like the high top Guilds on live were any different than here?

this is what i'm not getting. people are acting like casual guilds were killing trak/vs/etc on live when kunark was the top content available. i'd be willing to bet a paycheck on non rotation servers, this only happened when new content became available and the top guilds moved on to greener pastures. Of course when velious/luclin/etc come out guilds are going to be able to do ct/inny/trak/vs/vp etc a lot more regularly...

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unless I'm not remembering correctly, wasn't the whole 'don't artificially favor the zerg' part of nilbog's posts in here?

And answer my second question first!

anything you are talking about is going to favor the zerg. with full repops and no variance if guild a has 90 players they can split their 90 to hit the 3 highest priorities and keep moving down to other targets etc...

so what you want to propose is all guilds have a hard cap of 30 players or something along those lines?

[quido]

For someone who doesn't seem completely unintelligent, Zephany, the fact that you believe such a system would be a harmonious replication of live is a complete discredit to you.

All those who think Zephany's proposal of removing variance altogether would be an improvement, please say so. I want to know if anyone is actually taking this idiotically absurd idea seriously.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The token system is a GM-enforced rotation by another name.

Indeed, I said as much:

Originally Posted by Vexenu

It is essentially a de facto rotation that doesn't require guilds to cooperate with each other, and allows for competition and guilds to set themselves apart, with more dedicated guilds getting more loot.

However, unlike with a regular GM-enforced rotation, with an intelligent token system TMO, FE and any future hardcore guilds would still be able to utilize their superior organization and dedication to kill more mobs. The idea would be to reward guilds with increasing amounts of tokens based on the completion of VP/epic style quests, as well as having several other possible distribution methods (serverwide random drops, high price vendored tokens that spawn mobs dropping quest components only, etc...). There are tons of things you could do to distribute tokens in a way that would reward guilds based on the work they were willing to put in, rather than simply rewarding them for tracking and batphoning a huge guild roster.

It's not an insoluble problem if we're willing to go non-classic in your approach. And since we're already non-classic, I don't see why we shouldn't. The best result would be for hardcore guilds to be rewarded with more kills while allowing casual guilds to at least get a few mobs with their more limited time investment. The current system favors a winner-takes-all approach that I doubt even the winners truly enjoy, simply because it essentially requires treating the game like a job you're on call for 24/7.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

anything you are talking about is going to favor the zerg. with full repops and no variance if guild a has 90 players they can split their 90 to hit the 3 highest priorities and keep moving down to other targets etc...

so what you want to propose is all guilds have a hard cap of 30 players or something along those lines?

Why do you still think I'm vouching for anything other than getting rid of variance, something that I've more than once admitted won't happen?

You keep responding to things I've never even remotely said nor insinuated. Who is using my forum account and what have they been saying?

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed, I said as much:



However, unlike with a regular GM-enforced rotation, with an intelligent token system TMO, FE and any future hardcore guilds would still be able to utilize their superior organization and dedication to kill more mobs. The idea would be to reward guilds with increasing amounts of tokens based on the completion of VP/epic style quests, as well as having several other possible distribution methods (serverwide random drops, high price vendored tokens that spawn mobs dropping quest components only, etc...). There are tons of things you could do to distribute tokens in a way that would reward guilds based on the work they were willing to put in, rather than simply rewarding them for tracking and batphoning a huge guild roster.

It's not an insoluble problem if we're willing to go non-classic in your approach. And since we're already non-classic, I don't see why we shouldn't. The best result would be for hardcore guilds to be rewarded with more kills while allowing casual guilds to at least get a few mobs with their more limited time investment. The current system favors a winner-takes-all approach that I doubt even the winners truly enjoy, simply because it essentially requires treating the game like a job you're on call for 24/7.

this is accomplished by just having more server resets and you can skip the token stuff.