not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mav I don't think you read my posts. I am saying that I don't know exactly what will happen, just making a few educated guesses.

No, I read this part, "But you are making a huge mistake to judge the effect of constant repops by the 1-2 we got a few months ago."

i think it's a safer bet to look at what has actually happened as opposed to what would happen in your Utopian server resets. i admitted the casual guilds would get some lesser mobs, but they aren't going to get any top priority mobs unless it's a FTE snipe like i said. tmo and fe to a lesser extent now are not going to lose mobilization contests against other guilds on this server.

[quido]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you've got as many members and willing trackers as you do, it doesn't jive. It still favors the zerg and it's still not classic.

I don't dispute that it still favors the zerg, but I think the relative degree to which it does is significantly less. The zerg will always be favored in a number of rights - you can't change that without completely rewriting the game and making some sort of weird custom server.

It's generally a handful of hardcore people that hold down the tracking - there is rarely enough trackers in either of our guilds as it is now - and if they were told that their burden is approximately tripled (as it would be under my proposal) I think you'd see guilds focusing a lot more on the shit they really want and letting the smaller stuff go without a fight. There's no set of rules short of a rotation that are gonna stop guilds like TMO/FE/IB/Whoever from doing every damn thing they can from get Trakanon/VS.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think it's a safer bet to look at what has actually happened as opposed to what would happen in your Utopian server resets. i admitted the casual guilds would get some lesser mobs, but they aren't going to get any top priority mobs unless it's a FTE snipe like i said. tmo and fe to a lesser extent now are not going to lose mobilization contests against other guilds on this server.

Mav, let me ask you a simple question. Pretend for a moment that you are the guild leader of Divinity. Rogean announces there will be repops every week, with a server wide broadcast 1 hour before it happens. What do you do? And how does it differ from what you do now?

[Skope]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't dispute that it still favors the zerg, but I think the relative degree to which it does is significantly less. The zerg will always be favored in a number of rights - you can't change that without completely rewriting the game and making some sort of weird custom server.

Jeremy, it's not always going to favor the zerg. When guilds that were too big to put their pants on wound up collapsing because of pressure. If two guilds were evenly matched and one had larger numbers but both were rushing to breach VP, the trakonan bottleneck caused serious issues within the guild. People who spent DKP on teeth were/weren't awarded with loot that they had no DKP for. Those at the back of the line got pissed and /guildremoved. None of this is possible here because, provided you've got more warm bodies than the other guy, you're pretty much guaranteed loot. If that's not enough, Rogean is busy pushing through rules that specifically cater to the poopsockers too.

It's completely backasswards.

And I'm not exactly a fucking noobie here. I don't recall guilds showing up to targets with 70+ the ones dominating all of the live servers. This isn't an EQ problem but rather a P99 specific one.

Want proof? Read nilbog's post in this very thread.

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

again you are making big sweeping generalizations. i never saw on live what you did. you listing one example does not make it the standard. we haven't had more than 33 on a raid in over a month. also, i've been at divinity sky raids and seen closer to 35 plenty of times.

i agree with mav, i think div and maybe bda/fc pull more than us.

also concerning the variance its meant to break your will and not want to sit there, thats a paraphrase of what sirken told me. I like not having to poopsock anymore and fte is alil more clear with less GM intervention (grats FC on inny btw) the real issue comes down to how far are you willing to go for a pixel? FE doesnt enforce tracking, i think TMO makes apps track (correct me if im wrong). With the new variance another guild be it taken/div/fc/bda have alot better chance at snagging fay/sev while trak/vs are in window (or even extended window). But once again that wont come without fast mobilization and a spotter/puller there.

Thing is you can't plan to raid, unless its sky/fear/hate. Otherwise its random. I know I kinda pop around on toons checking targets during down hours and I've gotten a couple lucky spawns. Also you can group in VS pit and xp while waiting on venril for a potential engage, thats a good start for a guild that wants a shot imo.

I mean if this was classic with no variance wouldn't it be a bigger issue than it already is? I dunno if i agree with jeremy on an even longer variance tho. Seems to hurt any up and coming guild gearing themselves.

[quido]

I think some people just want exactly the same experience they had on live.

This is stupid.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't an EQ problem but rather a P99 specific one.

So tell them to open 10 more servers so people can pick the sort of server they want to play on. You're not going to emulate the experience of a dozen different servers on a single box.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mav, let me ask you a simple question. Pretend for a moment that you are the guild leader of Divinity. Rogean announces there will be repops every week, with a server wide broadcast 1 hour before it happens. What do you do? And how does it differ from what you do now?

i was already in divinity and had this situation happen. we got some of the smaller targets occasionally. but in the future, if i was the GL of divinity and went with the supposed conduct all the casual guilds claim i would work w/ the other casual guilds to try to get legitimate shots at some of the top mobs and if that didn't work out i would take the guild to the highest priority mob that we had a legit shot at. how that would differ from now? I'd be on the board reading comments about how unfair this is and how it promotes cheating/poopsocking.

honestly even with that 1hr announcement people are going to bitch. you are going to have people saying it's not in our prime time, it doesn't help euros, we are working, etc.

edit: AKA i would do what sirken suggested and got slammed for. classic eq mobs went to the guilds that put in the time and worked to get them. people are wanting this server to be non-classic and let everyone get a shot at every mob.

[quido]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno if i agree with jeremy on an even longer variance tho. Seems to hurt any up and coming guild gearing themselves.

Imagine if between our guilds we tried to always have a character a trak ledge, in VS pit, and someone on the loose for VP/whatever; it would be retarded. There's absolutely no way we as a whole could maintain this level of poopsockedness if stuff could pop at any moment and not just in a window that averages 2/7 of a given week. A four-day window means an average of 2 days in window per spawn (before this last accidental extension patch) versus a given FIVE days with no chance of that target spawning again. If there was a chance it could spawn again 20 minutes later, or not spawn again for a month, I think we'd see a different style of play from the top guilds.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i agree with mav, i think div and maybe bda/fc pull more than us.

Think is different than know. Mav doesn't know shit and assumes and you're inclined to agree with him. We're only able to pull 30+ on predetermined sky nights. We killed sev with 26-27. Back in 2010 we killed inny with 19 and draco with 12. I don't know what the hell mav's been telling you, but when he calls divinity a zerg guild it's an attempt at getting revenge at me for calling him an idiot...

...by proving himself to be an idiot.

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also concerning the variance its meant to break your will and not want to sit there, thats a paraphrase of what sirken told me.

That hasn't worked but a single week in over three years. Sirken is talking utter nonsense.

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thing is you can't plan to raid, unless its sky/fear/hate. Otherwise its random. I know I kinda pop around on toons checking targets during down hours and I've gotten a couple lucky spawns.

We're not talking about predetermined raids at X hours of Y days. While I understand that it plays a part, it's an incredibly small part. We're talking about the variance as a mechanic and how it affects not just the raid scene, but the server as a whole.

After seeing the people who pushed variance get knicked for SEQ/MQ, a single week of the mechanic not being abused in over three years, GMs consciously aware of the fact that they're favoring zerg forces, and now patch notes that show they don't care about what the players' have to say, I reckon it hasn't done any good but that one week where it worked as intended.

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also you can group in VS pit and xp while waiting on venril for a potential engage, thats a good start for a guild that wants a shot imo.

Only have to do it for how many days?

I'm not going to track endlessly and nor should anyone else have to. It's not classic. Even when I tracked I got kicked in the nuts, so why the hell should now be any different? I read the patch notes, but this time Rogean swung and missed. If people want to defend it the massive variance (not you, but more Jeremy), then they need to realize that the burden of proof is on them.

If it hasn't even worked in over three years then it's safe to assume you're not going to come up with a compelling argument as to why it should stick around.

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine if between our guilds we tried to always have a character a trak ledge, in VS pit, and someone on the loose for VP/whatever; it would be retarded. There's absolutely no way we as a whole could maintain this level of poopsockedness if stuff could pop at any moment and not just in a window that averages 2/7 of a given week. A four-day window means an average of 2 days in window per spawn (before this last accidental extension patch) versus a given FIVE days with no chance of that target spawning again. If there was a chance it could spawn again 20 minutes later, or not spawn again for a month, I think we'd see a different style of play from the top guilds.

Yea at this rate we'd see a very high rate of burn out, also not everyone likes parking out their main for upwards of a month for a pop you might not even see. Therefor dissipating this raid scene we're used to. Would def be a shock and see who wants it more I guess(i think thats what GM's were going for with extended windows actually)....

but...

I'd like to see maybe a reverse variance, like a mob can spawn after being killed, sort of like a ragefire thing where upon death it can pop again or go full window. That would catch top guilds off guard occasionally and keep the middle tier guilds aware/give them an attempt perhaps.