Not even sure why the Devs put up with all this

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

except you aren't really chipping away at any problem, unless you're actively beating TMO into submission. Last I heard, that wasn't happening.

That will start happening when the offenders start getting banned and the accounts deleted. With that we have come full circle in the discussion.

[vulzol]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

except you aren't really chipping away at any problem, unless you're actively beating TMO into submission. Last I heard, that wasn't happening.

Go away stealin you banned brah.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That will start happening when the offenders start getting banned and the accounts deleted. With that we have come full circle in the discussion.

no one gets banned here, just long suspension.

Accounts will never get deleted, nor would they have to if they actually banned people.

You are going full circle into a place that you have no control over and you are given a fact that it won't change.

Change what you can bro, change yourself for the better.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by vulzol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go away stealin you banned brah.

I quit before I was banned, pretty sure it doesn't matter.

[Autotune]

To be perfectly straight with people, the first several months I played I didn't jump into raiding. I hung out with a small crew of people and just dominated lower guk and laughed it up.

I took a break and when I returned a friend offered for me to join him in this new guild The Mystical Order. I got in and raided with them some, but still had the mindset that variance was gay, so I mostly skipped all that poopsocking and bullshit then. Couple months went by I took another break while Kunark was being released and missed the first few months of it. When I came back TMO was going hardcore and had done some merging or whatever, server was pretty gay with guild drama then. More targets = more raiding and less waiting so I jumped in.

Now I'll have you know there were only a few altercations that I was involved in prior to me starting to raid seriously in Kunark. Like stealing boogies from VD (because they were sitting on spawn points) and training douchebags in Lguk.

When I started raiding seriously and seeing all what IB was doing, I was like, "WOW!" I did not seriously know you could do this shit. That's when the game started getting awesome for me, it was like a Wild West MMO with faggoty little elves. The Sheriffs don't really give a shit as long as you don't come crying to them or they aren't there to actually see it (even then they didn't seem to care sometimes)... out of sight, fuck it I don't wanna mind.

That is where it was all "downhill" for some. IB would pull some shit, TMO would have to pull more shit/better shit and that just kept going back and forth, to see who could take the biggest shit on the server. The shits never really bothered most of the server other than TMO/IB relations (To which most of us are actually pretty chill with each other, we are faggoty elf war bros now), but when it did there would be a slap on the wrist.

Then Amelinda got involved and fucked everything up, it became all about who could manipulate her the best/most and less about who could pull the most ninja ass bullshit.

[vulzol]

wtf this isn't therapy nobody cares on rnf

plz die

[quido]

Harrison you should go on a crusade again demanding TMO be banned for training in VP

moran

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Harrison Remembers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Knew he was flagged
Sold account
Account got banned
Made up some conspiracy story to try and sound clean

You got caught. Man the fuck up, cheating scumbag.

Your logic is so terrible lol.

Knew I got flagged? Yeah, okay. You're saying I used MQ to cheat, but knew it would flag my account?

So I intentionally banned my account and I'm mad because my account got banned?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Harrison Remembers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, the more believable story is some grand hacking conspiracy got you flagged and you (and TMO collectively) are just super clean legit people, innocent of all accusations.

Seriously, drop the act already. No one is buying it. You cheat on 14 year-old games you're awful at. Just fucking admit it already. You already quit.

Oh, no. The more believable story is that I flagged my 3 IPs once each purposely to get my account banned so I could quit a week later and then come back and complain about it whenever they finally chose to run the mass ban program again (which happened to be a month/two months later).

The same person who had it when it got banned is the same one that has had it since a year+ ago.

[Uggme]

Been meaning to respond to this.

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is an internal matter for the guild, and not something that is really any particular concern of the server staff to allow of disallow. Other guilds also have no business concerning themselves with TMO's internal policy on the matter. That said, here's the logic behind the system which has worked very well so far. (Yes, there have been major hiccups, but the system still prospers despite them.)

I'm sure you've read Zeelot's recent thread regarding TMO's loot policy and you'll notice that it is a council-based system that keeps meticulous records for informational purposes (the records are never "binding" on the council's decisions but are considered highly persuasive). TMO's loot structure is meant to be a balance between the realistic needs of a raiding guild and individual achievement. Initially, we strongly favored mains over alts to the point of near absurdity, and we used to hold to the, very classicEQ, concept of handing out anything that dropped to someone at the raid if that main could use it no matter who they are. We have lost 3(4?) Donal's BP and other extremely valuable items to such a setup over time, and those losses are the origins of the DKP requirements to be awarded certain high-end items. The system ensures a high probability that the item will be used, long term, to help the guild while still rewarding individual efforts.

In classic EQ, the expansions came out fast enough so that you were almost always working on your main character, thus guilds tied benefits to characters and not players. On live, you were one of a small handfull of ultra-elite players if you had full "best in slot" gear at any time. P99 is unique in that the leveling up and "best in slot" progression is much faster here due to slower content releases, a VERY experienced player base, and account sales. For good or bad, those factors have caused a situation where it is more beneficial for both players and the guild to tie loot awards to players and not characters.

Consider a long-term member with over 1500 DKP (0.5 dkp / tracking hour & 1 dkp for each "boss kill"). This member has three level 60's one of which is a brand-new cleric that he just hit level 60 on. This member has an 80% attendance rate, and he has not received any loot since 2 months before the other player (below) joined the guild. There is a new member with 20% lifetime attendance and 50 DKP. A Donal's BP drops and only those two can use it. One is a "main" as and the other is an "alt" if you go by strict definitions. Who should get the BP in light of the above facts?

This situation is why TMO recognizes players and not characters when awarding loot. Otherwise, situations occur that will cause awards to "characters" by default due to their status as "mains," despite another "player" with an "alt" being far more "deserving" in the eyes of the guild's council. (Did I just use "too many" quotation marks?)

Ok, so the short story is that the guild has been burned, in your opinion, by persons who do not put in the kind of effort you'd like. So, as punishment to regular players who do put in a lot of time (just not as much as you'd like) and to further benefit those with so much time / plat that they have alts, you implemented a rule allowing them to get loot ahead of mains. It's a justification alright. I still don't agree. And trust me, I'm an educated individual and quite open. This still stinks of elitism and corrupt rules for those who lead the guild, which set a horrible precedent for the rest of the server. If the guild is so fabulously rich and ahead of the game then it stands to risk gear on potentially strong relationships with members. Regardless, the Officer Award method on it's own clearly states the intention to gear only those the leadership deems worthy. There are biases. There are prejudices. What you are doing is blinding yourself to it.

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I addressed this subject fairly recently here:http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=105

But I'll say a few words here as a codicil as well. Every single dragon in VP still drops loot that is greatly desired by raiding TMO characters. These dragons are killed primarily for those items. The rotting loot is sold as an incidental benefit that would otherwise be "money left on the table."

Yes, it is commendable to announce rots as FFA at large, but not obligatory from any ethical standpoint. I agree that it would be in bad form to kill those mobs strictly for monetary benefit. Every single raid mob still killed today drops items of value. Even Vox drops the extremely desirable rez stick, and Nagafen drops prayers of life and bladestoppers all of which are given to mains upon dropping.

The fact that there is just one slightly needed item off of certain mobs is irrelevant. This is due to the fact that Zeelot has openly stated he makes sure loot doesn't rot because he sells it. It'd obvious this one one of the main reasons these mobs are killed. You're right, however, that it's not TMO's obligation to allow rots to simply given away. But the main issue actually lies in your own statement! That is you, and apparently the leadership, views rotting loot as "money left on the table". It's not. It's gear in a game. A free game, made for the enjoyment of many. Or is TMO and it's leadership so petty and conniving in it's attempt to stay on top by monopolizing everything that it can't remember that? It would be so easy for TMO to be significantly less monopolizing regarding this exact thing to accomplish.... what? Oh that's right, this brings me to the last point. -Engaging in the betterment of the server and the betterment of TMO's rep!

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I first started playing here, I remember seeing Nagafen spawned and downed in under 15 minutes flat. I didn't know who killed it, I'm not sure how they did it so fast, and I didn't know exactly why.

I hated them.

Honestly, I think I was jealous or perhaps simply being petty. I don't know. My point is that I had a completely irrational hatred for those mysterious people on top that I had never even met. It's perfectly natural to expect some dislike merely based upon that factor. Couple this with RnF and some... interesting personalities, and you'll have a recipe for a hate machine. Certainly, TMO could do more to improve its reputation, and there are many instances where both the guild as a whole and individual members do things that hurt the reputation. But these must all be considered holistically. What is earned versus what is simply assigned by human nature?

Only after I made a conscious decision to understand the motivations surrounding the endgame did I understand it, and I think that if you take the time to investigate it thoroughly you might have a finding or two that surprises you.

See, I don't hate TMO. I think they are run poorly, and the abscense of oversight has led it's leadership and to some degree the guild as a whole to think they can just do whatever the hell they want. In the end, I suppose they can. But those actions, if they negatively affect the server (which it appears they do) should go punished. They aren't by the guild's leadership. Some are even supported by the guild's leader! Thus, my original question in the title of this thread.