Why do devs keep making these retarded cash shop MMORPGs that all fail?

[Nune]

Sorry, for a second I thought I was reading a thread on the P99 boards where people were looking down on paying money for specific items.

[Karafa]

Originally Posted by OMGWTF420 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that one looks to be turning out pretty well. im also looking forward to ffxiv 2.0, its slated for a cross-platform release this summer. subscription based model afaik

Want my Beta account for FFXIV AAR? I lasted literally 35 seconds before I closed out. Awful interface, awful graphics, awful combat system. I was really excited for it.. another let down!

[Anesthia]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stopped reading thread after this point.

All y'all kids are 20. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

35...and EchoedTruth's list is better than yours. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Kagatob]

Correction then, your taste is shit. Enjoy your games that can be beaten one handed with your eyes closed. What do you want from your games?

[citizen1080]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correction then, your taste is shit. Enjoy your games that can be beaten one handed with your eyes closed. What do you want from your games?

Thank you for your opinion...which means shit. You are one of the most negative douche bags on these forums. Mix it up a little and maybe people will care what you think.

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I prefer 3d crapshoots to classic platformers. The "golden age" of gaming.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Swish]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are one of the most negative douche bags on these forums.

Yeah lighten up a bit Kagatob, you weren't always this negative [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Anesthia]

I also forgot GoldenEye 007 ('97).

One of the Nintendo Power game counselors claimed he could beat Ninja Gaiden (NES) with his eyes closed. The best I could ever do was not dying. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[gotrocks]

I'd have to agree with most of the people on here, 96ish-2003ish was a truly revolutionary time in gaming. The advances in graphics gave developers a chance to *really* tell a story, as opposed to having to read one in the manual along with snippets of text in between. Some good examples of pre-"3d age" games that were both fun gameplay wise and told great stories are:

Chrono trigger (probably fav snes game of all time)
Secret of mana
FF6 (3 in the US)
super metroid (really the entire metroid series, but it was perfected with the snes release)
super mario rpg (will always be a classic... plus i still try to get timed hits in every turn based rpg like this that i play, whether they exist or not)
legend of zelda link to the past
xcom
original civilization
master of orion


Obviously there were other fun games in the nes-snes era, but these were the titles that started showing the world games had more to offer than pixels and guns. They could tell a story, they could connect with their audience. They could be a new art medium.

But then developers started to really step it up, and we got what I still think is the golden age of gaming. That's not to say we don't have good games nowadays (and to be perfectly honest, people who say 'oh all new games suck, period' are just being intentionally negative and want to be stuck in the past. which is fine, but dont spread your misery to everyone else). These games took the ideas the games listed above started and really shouted out "games are here to stay, we can be emotional, we can be smart, we can tell a story, and we can do all these things just as well as movies or novels". Since then, we've seen tons of great releases, but these titles (and many more) are really what grabbed the worlds attention and forced people to see gaming for what it was: A new medium for conveying ideas and emotions, just like a book.

Half-life
Baldurs gate series (1, 2 and expansions), Planescape torment
final fantasy 7 (maybe not the best in the series, though some will argue it is, but certainly a revolution in the way the game is played and interacted with)
everquest
starcraft
fallout series
freedom force (amazing, dont knock it till you try it... it really brought comics into the gaming world)
grand theft auto
master of orion 2
halo
thief series
pokemon (undeniably one of the most important rpgs of all time for a number of reasons, whether you like the game or not)
mechwarrior series (this was actually released a litlte before 96 but since the majority of the titles came after that im including it here. That opening sequence for mech 2 was just mindblowing at the time)
age of empires
gran turismo/forza
system shock 2 (still one of the greatest games of all time)
Deus ex (also one of the greatest games of all time)
c&c series (red alert-red alert 2)
resident evil 1 and 2
goldeneye
super mario 64
zelda OOT
metal gear solid
civilization 2 and 3


Now, this is *not* a 'best games' list by any means. My favorite games list would look similar, but not identical to this list. What this is showing is the games that really took gaming as a medium and brought it to another level. These games raised the bar and said 'This is where we need to be, this is what people need to see and think when they see gaming. This is why we are protected under the first amendment - we convey thoughts, ideas, and emotions just as well as any other medium, and deserve the same rights as those other forms of media'

This is really important, because without these games the way we interact with video games could be quite different today. If it's your opinion that these games are all 'shit' or 'bad games', that's fine and you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're wrong. I say you're wrong, and people that have been in the industry for decades say you're wrong. Maybe not every game on this list was 'revolutionary' at the time, but many of them were, and many of them elevated gaming to an entirely different level. The games that came before this era were good, even great, but they just didn't do the same thing, they didn't leave the same emotional impact (with a few exceptions) and they didn't make us think like the titles above did.

There's really no other way to put it, these games changed gaming forever. They showed us what games could really be, and they paved the way for future games to expand and even improve upon what was set forth before them. Once again, if you disagree, that's your opinion, but you're wrong - and I challenge you to defend your position with anything other than nostalgia. Most - if not all - of these games consistently show up on greatest games of all time lists (granted, they show up with titles like those listed in the '2d era' section) and more often than not they are cited as changing the way we look at gaming. There's a good reason for that (even if 'best games of all time' lists are highly subjective and therefore next to worthless), especially considering these lists stay simiar to each other across different publications and websites.

They're just that good.One last time before I wrap up - if you disagree, i challenge you to state your thesis and back it up with whatever reasons you can (research and references not needed, this is just thought discussion) but I don't think anything you can say will change my or anyone else's opinion on why these games are great. Basically you're stuck in the 2d era because of a mix of nostalgia and a desire for things to stay the same, which is fine, but you are shutting yourself off from so many great titles in the process (especially now that we're having an 'indie revolution', right now there's basically two types of games, AAA titles and indie titles, and all the garbage that used to be in between is no longer being published,which is fantastic. A *TON* of these indie titles are throwbacks to the 2d era of games, and a lot of them are simply amazing! just have to know where to look!), which makes me really sad as a gamer. In any case, I felt I needed to write something up regarding what everyone has been posting about here. Feel free to discuss, agree, disagree, whatever you'd like regarding what I've laid out here in this post. I think if we can get another person or two to take kagatobs position and provide some good reasoning as to why his opinion is correct then we would have a really cool discussion here. i look forward to reading everyone's responses!

[EchoedTruth]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd have to agree with most of the people on here, 96ish-2003ish was a truly revolutionary time in gaming. The advances in graphics gave developers a chance to *really* tell a story, as opposed to having to read one in the manual along with snippets of text in between. Some good examples of pre-"3d age" games that were both fun gameplay wise and told great stories are:

Chrono trigger (probably fav snes game of all time)
Secret of mana
FF6 (3 in the US)
super metroid (really the entire metroid series, but it was perfected with the snes release)
super mario rpg (will always be a classic... plus i still try to get timed hits in every turn based rpg like this that i play, whether they exist or not)
legend of zelda link to the past
xcom
original civilization
master of orion


Obviously there were other fun games in the nes-snes era, but these were the titles that started showing the world games had more to offer than pixels and guns. They could tell a story, they could connect with their audience. They could be a new art medium.

But then developers started to really step it up, and we got what I still think is the golden age of gaming. That's not to say we don't have good games nowadays (and to be perfectly honest, people who say 'oh all new games suck, period' are just being intentionally negative and want to be stuck in the past. which is fine, but dont spread your misery to everyone else). These games took the ideas the games listed above started and really shouted out "games are here to stay, we can be emotional, we can be smart, we can tell a story, and we can do all these things just as well as movies or novels". Since then, we've seen tons of great releases, but these titles (and many more) are really what grabbed the worlds attention and forced people to see gaming for what it was: A new medium for conveying ideas and emotions, just like a book.

Half-life
Baldurs gate series (1, 2 and expansions), Planescape torment
final fantasy 7 (maybe not the best in the series, though some will argue it is, but certainly a revolution in the way the game is played and interacted with)
everquest
starcraft
fallout series
freedom force (amazing, dont knock it till you try it... it really brought comics into the gaming world)
grand theft auto
master of orion 2
halo
thief series
pokemon (undeniably one of the most important rpgs of all time for a number of reasons, whether you like the game or not)
mechwarrior series (this was actually released a litlte before 96 but since the majority of the titles came after that im including it here. That opening sequence for mech 2 was just mindblowing at the time)
age of empires
gran turismo/forza
system shock 2 (still one of the greatest games of all time)
Deus ex (also one of the greatest games of all time)
c&c series (red alert-red alert 2)
resident evil 1 and 2
goldeneye
super mario 64
zelda OOT
metal gear solid
civilization 2 and 3


Now, this is *not* a 'best games' list by any means. My favorite games list would look similar, but not identical to this list. What this is showing is the games that really took gaming as a medium and brought it to another level. These games raised the bar and said 'This is where we need to be, this is what people need to see and think when they see gaming. This is why we are protected under the first amendment - we convey thoughts, ideas, and emotions just as well as any other medium, and deserve the same rights as those other forms of media'

This is really important, because without these games the way we interact with video games could be quite different today. If it's your opinion that these games are all 'shit' or 'bad games', that's fine and you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're wrong. I say you're wrong, and people that have been in the industry for decades say you're wrong. Maybe not every game on this list was 'revolutionary' at the time, but many of them were, and many of them elevated gaming to an entirely different level. The games that came before this era were good, even great, but they just didn't do the same thing, they didn't leave the same emotional impact (with a few exceptions) and they didn't make us think like the titles above did.

There's really no other way to put it, these games changed gaming forever. They showed us what games could really be, and they paved the way for future games to expand and even improve upon what was set forth before them. Once again, if you disagree, that's your opinion, but you're wrong - and I challenge you to defend your position with anything other than nostalgia. Most - if not all - of these games consistently show up on greatest games of all time lists (granted, they show up with titles like those listed in the '2d era' section) and more often than not they are cited as changing the way we look at gaming. There's a good reason for that (even if 'best games of all time' lists are highly subjective and therefore next to worthless), especially considering these lists stay simiar to each other across different publications and websites.

They're just that good.One last time before I wrap up - if you disagree, i challenge you to state your thesis and back it up with whatever reasons you can (research and references not needed, this is just thought discussion) but I don't think anything you can say will change my or anyone else's opinion on why these games are great. Basically you're stuck in the 2d era because of a mix of nostalgia and a desire for things to stay the same, which is fine, but you are shutting yourself off from so many great titles in the process (especially now that we're having an 'indie revolution', right now there's basically two types of games, AAA titles and indie titles, and all the garbage that used to be in between is no longer being published,which is fantastic. A *TON* of these indie titles are throwbacks to the 2d era of games, and a lot of them are simply amazing! just have to know where to look!), which makes me really sad as a gamer. In any case, I felt I needed to write something up regarding what everyone has been posting about here. Feel free to discuss, agree, disagree, whatever you'd like regarding what I've laid out here in this post. I think if we can get another person or two to take kagatobs position and provide some good reasoning as to why his opinion is correct then we would have a really cool discussion here. i look forward to reading everyone's responses!

Pretty epic write-up there. A+