Fact: EQ was meant to be a PvP game

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Stinkum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't be stupid.. Why even code the Rogue abilities like Make/Apply Poison in the game when they were making EQ if they were not designing the game with PvP in mind? Why put an item like Pumice Stone in the game?

The list goes on, you'll find why most casters only buy 50% of their spells on Blue servers, cause half of them have no application in PvE.

Pumice stone - to allow melees to remove buffs of NPC target. Alleviates the the casters from responsibility of having to dmg and debuff. Quicker stripping of buffs and application of debuffs.

Make/Apply poison - To allow rogues to augment the debuffs given to shamans/enchanters. And to allow rogues to augment dots of Necros/Druids/Shamans.

Just because a spell has a lower utility than another doesn't inherently make it a PvP spell. Again, your argument does not point towards anything remotely close to your claim.

[Elmarnieh]

The designers stated that PVP was an afterthought.

Your opinion on the mechanics development is trumped by the people who developed the mechanics.

Thank you, come again.

[Vladesch]

You are crediting the original designers with too much skill.
More likely they just stuffed up the spell design for some spells.

I'm sure you could find plenty of useless spells that are useless for pvp too....

Sense animals
Invoke lightning
Firefist
Invisibility to animals (camoflague is 4 levels lower and invis vs a lot more)
cascade of hail
calm animal (where would you use this instead of harmony?)
Spirit of cheetah. (not completely useless, but very very close to it)
scale of wolf (we dont have it, but would you really bother with it anyway?)
greater wolf form. (who would bother, normal wolfform is just as good for what druids want)

etc.

[Alawen]

Originally Posted by Vladesch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are crediting the original designers with too much skill.
More likely they just stuffed up the spell design for some spells.

I'm sure you could find plenty of useless spells that are useless for pvp too....

Sense animals
Invoke lightning
Firefist
Invisibility to animals (camoflague is 4 levels lower and invis vs a lot more)
cascade of hail
calm animal (where would you use this instead of harmony?)
Spirit of cheetah. (not completely useless, but very very close to it)
scale of wolf (we dont have it, but would you really bother with it anyway?)
greater wolf form. (who would bother, normal wolfform is just as good for what druids want)

etc.

I use sense animals, firefist, calm animal, spirit of cheetah and greater wolf form often.

[Vladesch]

Originally Posted by Alawen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I use sense animals, firefist, calm animal, spirit of cheetah and greater wolf form often.

I can't see any situation where any of these spells are useful, with the exception of spirit of cheetah under very specific circumstances (and only because of the stupid non stacking of sow and root). Perhaps you would like to let us know under what circumstances you find these spells of use to you because frankly I have my doubts.

[Aviann]

Originally Posted by Vladesch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't see any situation where any of these spells are useful, with the exception of spirit of cheetah under very specific circumstances (and only because of the stupid non stacking of sow and root). Perhaps you would like to let us know under what circumstances you find these spells of use to you because frankly I have my doubts.

I'll do it for him.

Firefist = Attack bonus
Greater Wolf form = more movement speed and atk bonus than regular wolf form
Spirit of Cheetah = Really fucking fast travel time
Sense animal = tells you where the fuck the nearest animal is so you can charm it and use it against idiots
Invisibility to animals = so you can trick people into running into hostile animals while chasing you
Invoke Lightning = AOE DD

There now, I came up with a response for almost every spell you listed. You can have your doubts, but sometimes people do different shit than root nuke rinse repeat on everything and anything possible. Tis called strategy.

[Stinkum]

EQ was meant to be a high-stakes, chaotic game. High-stakes for the severe penalties from dying (long corpse runs, loss of significant XP). Chaotic because you can literally attack (and kill) any NPC in the game that you want to. Whether it's a banker, guild trainer, important quest NPC, or merchant. Everything is fair game.

It follows logically that you were also meant to attack any PC as well.

If you're not playing PvP, you're doing EQ wrong.

Brad McQuaid and Smedley all say they had zero intention of making the game PVP, based of of UO's horrible PVP methods.

That's why there's a Priest of Dischord at the default bind point in every city and every toon created (even on PvE servers) starts with a Book of Dischord? And there were extremely popular PvP servers at launch of EQ? Not to mention all the obvious PvP items and spells built into the design of the game?

Derp.

[Kagatob]

Bad thread rated 1 star.

All of your arguments are invalid because EQ was heavily influenced by D&D which is why so many useless spells/abilities exist.

[Stormhowl]

Originally Posted by Stinkum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's why there's a Priest of Dischord at the default bind point in every city and every toon created (even on PvE servers) starts with a Book of Dischord?

1) Hasty Generalization Fallacy. Just because there's the option for PvP on a PvE server doesn't mean the game was designed as PvP.

And there were extremely popular PvP servers at launch of EQ?

2) Appeal to Popularity Fallacy. Just because PvP was popular doesn't mean it was designed as a PvP game.

Not to mention all the obvious PvP items and spells built into the design of the game?

3) Composition Fallacy. Just because a very, very small sample of abilities and spells have "PvP-only" functions (in your opinion), doesn't mean the whole of the game is PvP.

Derp.

Stop talking. Also, it's endlessly entertaining you ignored the interview where the designers specifically stated that EverQuest was not designed with PvP in mind because of how Ultima Online played out two years prior.

Can we just get this thread locked?