Any Young-Earth Creationists?

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Nocturne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If God created the physical universe then that means he is not a physical being himself and therefor isn't subject to the rules of the universe. Everything within the universe including the universe itself has a beginning and an end and as such, is a finite creation. God represents the infinite, the eternal, no beginning nor end. It's not a cop out at all, just logic really. Something had to of always existed otherwise there would only be nothing. We know this something isn't the universe because we know the universe had a beginning just like our planet and our sun had a beginning.

Ok, so:

You: God created the universe.

Me: Who created God?

You: It doesn't matter, when you create the universe, you don't need to be created.

How the FUCK is that logical? That's nothing more than belief.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, so:

You: God created the universe.

Me: Who created God?

You: It doesn't matter, when you create the universe, you don't need to be created.

How the FUCK is that logical? That's nothing more than belief.

Ok, so:

You: Life in modern form was purely natural, infinitesimal chance over time = infinite complexity.

Me: Well, where did the original matter come from?

You: Nobody knows.

Me: Could it have been created?

You: There is absolutely no creator.

Me: Then how did it get here?

You: Nobody knows, we just can't understand it.

Me: You sure it couldn't have been a creator god?

You: No, it certainly wasn't a creator God.

Ephirith, Dropping logic bombs!

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Me: Well, where did the original matter come from?

You: Nobody knows.

Me: Could it have been created?

You: Yes
Ephirith, Dropping logic bombs!

Actually if you cut it off right there (before you put words in my mouth) you actually have a pretty accurate depiction of my position.

You see, you're claiming someone created the universe. I'm claiming we don't know how the universe was created, and that our lack of knowledge doesn't imply a creator. Those are hugely different.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm claiming we don't know how the universe was created, and that our lack of knowledge doesn't imply a creator.

So you are arguing in support of the probability of a creator then. Welcome brother. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Given your unbiased examination of observed facts, you have a hypothesis that leads you to what conclusion? That regardless of how we arrived at life as we know it currently, original matter suddenly appeared or instead that it was created somehow? Just wondering the most unbiased logical conclusion here with the highest probability of accuracy given unknown information.

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Nocturne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I seriously don't get how you can have such poor reasoning skills. You say we don't know how the universe was created, at the same time admitting that it was created at some point. Yet you cannot make the simple leap of logic that suggests that anything that is created has a creator. You were created, therefor you have a creator. Who was your creator? Your mother and your father. The computer you're using was also created. Therefor it has a creator.

The universe was created, therefor it has a creator. The science is irrelevant in the matter. Science is merely the reverse engineering of the mechanisms which govern the physical world. Science has no jurisdiction outside of physical reality and therefor could never be used to measure anything beyond it. Since we know the universe didn't always exist, we know there is something beyond physical reality.

but who created the creator?

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Nocturne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I seriously don't get how you can have such poor reasoning skills. You say we don't know how the universe was created, at the same time admitting that it was created at some point. Yet you cannot make the simple leap of logic that suggests that anything that is created has a creator. You were created, therefor you have a creator. Who was your creator? Your mother and your father. The computer you're using was also created. Therefor it has a creator.

The universe was created, therefor it has a creator. The science is irrelevant in the matter. Science is merely the reverse engineering of the mechanisms which govern the physical world. Science has no jurisdiction outside of physical reality and therefor could never be used to measure anything beyond it. Since we know the universe didn't always exist, we know there is something beyond physical reality.

Time is kind of a squishy concept that probably doesn't exist outside the scope of this universe being it's one of its dimensions and all. This isn't to say that there is an eternal god, but I am suggesting the idea that the universe has always existed, since all time would be confined to it, but I'm just pontificating. So, if the universe has always existed, then there is no need for your creator, by the logic of your arguments.

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Time is kind of a squishy concept that probably doesn't exist outside the scope of this universe being it's one of its dimensions and all. This isn't to say that there is an eternal god, but I am suggesting the idea that the universe has always existed, since all time would be confined to it, but I'm just pontificating. So, if the universe has always existed, then there is no need for your creator, by the logic of your arguments.

No! It's impossible! EVERYTHING has a creator!

[Rhambuk]

I just realized I create sperm, dna, thus I am god.

Bow down or feel my wrath

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Nocturne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yet you cannot make the simple leap of logic that suggests that anything that is created has a creator.

That's not a leap of logic, that's a reprehensible miscarriage of logic.

"Anything that is created has a creator".

Then your creator had to have a creator right? No? Exempt from your own rule?

My position is simply this: We don't know how the observable universe was created.

I'm not making a claim. I don't need evidence, and I don't need to defend jack shit, because my position isn't rooted in half-baked beliefs backed up by circular logic and selective reasoning.

If you're going to tell me an omnipotent being created the universe, you better have some evidence better than "Well I don't understand how else it could have happened!". Show me evidence and I'll gladly believe you.

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That regardless of how we arrived at life as we know it currently, original matter suddenly appeared or instead that it was created somehow? Just wondering the most unbiased logical conclusion here with the highest probability of accuracy given unknown information.

Again, the same problem arises when you ask: creator suddenly appeared or instead that it was created somehow? Why not skip a step? But no more cop-outs!

[Rhambuk]

its easier to believe that a creator appeared out of nothing than the universe...somehow