Drama

[President]

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree the decent thing to do is to give up the camp to a full group, specially if they say they were doing a CR. Would the group have done the same though if the situation had been the other way around? Camp checks are not always infallible, this is why you win/lose camps. It's all speculation but my money is on the group to tell the enchanter to get bent if the situation had been reversed. Can you imagine? Oh charm broke wrong time, I was doing CR but it was my camp....

Very true also. I highly doubt I would ever give a camp back to an enchanter if I had someone in the group that actually needed what was dropping in that camp. I can't tell you how many times, especially before the camping rules went in, that I got a group together to go down to camp FBSS/YAK only to find an enchanter clearing the whole downstairs who was AFK during my three camp check's. Although infuriating, I never attempted to fight the enchanter for the spot, even when he wasn't "at the camp" but at one of his other 3 rotating spots.

[Deeps]

intentional training should be bannable of course, but, i long for ffa. I feel like this server is evolving into some kind of weird camping nightmare. Ks'n and stealing camps with a more powerful group just sounds like good clean fun to me. The way things are reminds me of basketball players and european football players who act like they get shot any time they get into contact with anything. Thats real competition, otss, only the strong survive.

[Deeps]

if ks'n and camp stealing were legal, it would also give the guild leaders more power to police themselves, as well as, give the guides and gm's less stuff to worry about. People who are pricks would get blacklisted and booted out of guilds. 1 guy wouldnt be able to camp frenzy for days. It's prolly been discussed before, I'm sure it has. I wish they would at least put up a poll so we could get an idea about what people think. I'm not a genius though, so maybe im wrong, lol.

[Daldolma]

I play a rogue main (with no alts) and have had nothing but good experiences with Divinity, so let's push aside the matter of bias from the get-go.

But I think it's clear that the OP was in the right here, at least up until the loot was dropped. The guy comes to an empty camp with a full spawn, clears the PH, and then is informed that a wiped group is making their way back to that camp. He concedes the camp out of pure goodwill, as it is rightfully his, asking only for the right to the named (or named PH) which he just spent ~20 minutes (assumption) clearing the camp for. The group agrees, with the exception of one member making unreasonable demands (that he walk away from a camp that is his, reaping absolutely zero benefit from the fact that he just cleared the worthless PH, potentially priming the named pop for the group).

The enchanter proceeds to begin clearing the respawns in the way that *every* enchanter does. I find it exceptionally hard to believe that among a full group of players from a guild as respected and high-end as Divinity, not a one understood what the enchanter was doing. That leaves the alternative, which is the reality of the situation: the group knew what was going on, waited for the enchanter to zone, then stole the mob that they had previously agreed to allow the enchanter to kill.

As some posters have gone to great lengths to point out, nothing the group did was against the rules. There is no debate over that -- this was not a rules infringement on the part of either party. That's why it's in RnF instead of a petition. From my view, the enchanter was understanding and conciliatory, while the group -- frustrated by the loss of their camp -- completely ignored any form of common courtesy, in effect taking advantage of a guy that was not looking for a fight. I know that in the world of EQ, the solo'er is big business, and the full group looking for experience is the trampled proletariat, but that wasn't the case in this scenario.

Once the loot dropped, though, the group went above and beyond, IMO. To allow the enchanter to roll essentially evens things up, in my opinion. The fact that the sword was eventually relinquished to the enchanter a) proves to me that the Divinity members, though understandably caught up in frustration and loot-lust at the moment, eventually absolutely, 100% did what was right and made up for any wrong-doing, and b) knew that what they had done was wrong, at least to a certain extent. I'm sorry, but that's a valuable sword. You do not hand that over if you fail to recognize the legitimacy of the gripe.

So basically, I think this thread is a waste. The enchanter did what was right. Divinity eventually did what was right. The correct parties had the correct items (enchanter - sword, Divinity - the camp), and there's really not much more to argue about.

[President]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The enchanter proceeds to begin clearing the respawns in the way that *every* enchanter does. I find it exceptionally hard to believe that among a full group of players from a guild as respected and high-end as Divinity, not a one understood what the enchanter was doing. That leaves the alternative, which is the reality of the situation: the group knew what was going on, waited for the enchanter to zone, then stole the mob that they had previously agreed to allow the enchanter to kill.

I've been playing for some time, on here and classic, and had no enchanter tell me (even my room mate who plays a level 50 enc) that he has to zone to be able to clear a camp. So, I don't find it impossible that no person in that group understood that was his "strategy." I also don't believe that is how every enchanter fights that camp either, as I know for sure my room mate has held it without having to dash to the zone line.

So basically, I think this thread is a waste. The enchanter did what was right. Divinity eventually did what was right. The correct parties had the correct items (enchanter - sword, Divinity - the camp), and there's really not much more to argue about.

I agree on the rest of your assessment, however it does show a lameness of the enchanter.

"Hey, I understand you guys were going to pick up two new members of your group and had a mini wipe, but since I didn't call CC and ran down to the camp and started clearing it, I am going to take the weapon you have been camping for X amount of time even though one of your players needs it."

[Shewz]

People are trying to call me an asshole here (I think some of you are confusing me with soup) so let me clear some things up:

1. I am bound at king.

2. I broke the spawn before I was aware that they were on CR. King is very rarely camped by a group. I'm not on the same plane as a necro camping AM/Lord/Frenzy.

3. I let the spawn repop fully because I didn't expect the m2h to pop and wanted to leave them with some mobs to kill in case it didn't.

4. They knew why I was zoning, because I told them.

^^ So those are all the 100% true facts.

Here's the grey area part of the story that addresses "Shewz zoned because he's a failure":

I didn't put this in the original post because I couldn't prove it with screenshots. As soon as the group saw the M2H king, they had no intention of keeping the deal. They started snaking guards out of the camp (they later claimed: We killed some guards, so we broke the camp, therefore king is ours). They killed the Bok Knight, which is what I use for my pet. This means I had to use a Kor Shaman as my pet instead. This also meant that I knew they were breaking the deal. This added a whole lot of pressure. I was essentially racing against them to aggro the king. I am perfectly capable of efficiently holding the king camp, without zoning, when there isn't a full group racing me and killing my pet mob.

And really, this isn't about server rules. I just wanted to document people being rabid assholes for my own catharsis BEFORE Autum gave me the sword.

Also, the M2H is in the hands of a guildie.

[Stepy]

I don't think it matters if that is the 'Strat' of the day for Enchanters if he has to leave and run back to the camp then it's abandoned. I'm sure others can try a strat. of killing one of the mobs, zoning and running back till it successfully picked off all mobs. If camp is free and clear then fine they can use some strat all day. Clearly he could tell if there was a wipe and the group was considerate to let him have a shot but you can't expect them to wait all day for the Charm - Zone - Return - Med tactic to work.
What would some of you do if you ran in and saw a full spawn or one mob missing and thought, hmmm a chanter must have been using that good ol chanter strat? What if you happened upon the same zone and no one was there and you finished it off and then some chanter walks up and says i was using my strat of the day to clear camp it is mine?

[Daldolma]

That's fair, then -- maybe I take that knowledge for granted. I do have a few enchanter friends in-game, and I've heard them discuss it in Skype (and watched them do it in-game), so it's possible I have more than common knowledge regarding the subject. But to me it seems obvious that an enchanter solo'ing a difficult camp zones (or re-logs) to heal his charm. I think the dash to the zone line is overstated, as well -- the portal is about 8 steps away from the king's throne, and I wouldn't be surprised if the enchanter was bound in the king's safe hall. It's a common bind point for classes that can solo the King. It's entirely possible the whole zoning process took less than a minute, if he were bound at safe hall.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Stepy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would some of you do if you ran in and saw a full spawn or one mob missing and thought, hmmm a chanter must have been using that good ol chanter strat? What if you happened upon the same zone and no one was there and you finished it off and then some chanter walks up and says i was using my strat of the day to clear camp it is mine?

The problem is that that's not what happened. This group didn't happen upon the camp as the guy was out of zone. They knew what he was doing because he told them, and according to him, he even told them he was going to zone. They agreed to let him have the one mob. Then when he zoned, they killed it. It was wrong. But they gave him the sword, which made everything alright as far as I'm concerned.

And I hadn't seen Shewz's most recent post when I made mine, but it confirms my previous belief that a) the group knew what they were doing, b) he was bound in the King safe hall, and c) the entire "zoning" ordeal likely took less than a full 60 seconds, which renders any kind of defense of the King kill moot. It's one thing if the guy's not there, the group is standing around, and they sake "fuck this, he's not here -- let's take it." But it takes, what? 45 seconds to run to portal, load to Innothule, then gate? They had to be waiting on it, and they had to have engaged the SECOND he zoned out. It's low, it just is.

But again, since they returned the sword, I have a hard time seriously holding this against Divinity. Everyone makes mistakes -- owning the mistake and making reparations is generally above and beyond the call, given the fact that this particular mistake broke no server rule and threatened nobody with any sort of punishment. IMO, chalk another one up for Divinity's generally exceptional reputation, and grats Shewz on the Mithril 2-hander. Not much more to it than that.

[Stepy]

"1. I am bound at king."
OK, I would guess you would be camping king for loot since you plan of doing the rinse and repeat method, rather for cash or guildies.

"3. I let the spawn re pop fully because I didn't expect the m2h to pop and wanted to leave them with some mobs to kill in case it didn't."

This is a little more interesting to me, either you were giving up the camp and wanted to make sure it was full pop so they would have to work for it. You prefer a challenge and wanted a full spawn so you could continue to rely on the charm and zone strat?
This particular statement of your leads me to believe you were planing on leaving and wanted it to be full spawn first and changed your mind when you saw named.
Having several boys this is a common practice when they have to share something they do not give up so willingly.