First Aggro + 15 - Page 6

bullet · #51 06-26-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No we don't. We play this 10 year old game because the raiding of non-instanced bosses THAT YOU MUST COMPETE OVER is about the most fun you can have in the endgame of a PvE game.

Instanced zones are not fun.

No matter what you say, if you play a PvE game for the high-end, its not about the boss you're killing, its about competing with the next person.

Yes we can quite clearly see that Everquest raiding is 'fun'

G13 · #52 06-26-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgrin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Camping a tracker is one thing, but having to have 1/2 of your raid force camped in the raid zone is a little ridiculous.

This is what people who don't raid don't understand. None of this content is designed for a "first 15 to aggro" rule. None of it. What you are seeing is how far people are willing to take shit to kill mobs. What you are seeing is competition within the confines of the current raid rules. The variance is making the camping far worse than it needs to be. It should be removed.

There is no difference between one druid and an additional 14 people camping a mob. So 14+ people camp out at WC instead of in the zone? It takes 2 seconds to port to LS/zone in.

It takes 2 seconds to port to Hate

Fear is the only real FFA zone (kinda). The way CT aggro works it throws FFA out the window.

Perma just requires some potions. Then it takes literally 3 minutes to zone in.

Such a huge difference. But why would a guild want to log out in WC when they can log out in the zone instead? Why log off when you can remain logged in and establish claim? It's not your fault if nobody roll calls you or timers you. Any of the current pick up raids or "raiding guilds" can do this but they don't.

I agree that the camping needs to stop, but this is not going to be an easy solution. There are massive egos preventing any true reform. People are going to want to mold rules that they think favor them the most. It's human nature.

If you truly want "competition" a completely new raid system, independent from any server rules would have to be created. A game within a game. Every raiding guild would have to agree to these rules. The current system of 15 in zone, timers, roll calls, camping, ect. is a game within a game. A very tedious and strategic one, but a game nonetheless. If you want shit to change you need to create a completely new system which would require honesty from all guilds and a willingness for everyone to comply.

Good luck with that!

girth · #53 06-26-2010, 07:43 PM

I grow tired of people saying that this system would not change anything. If you take away the 'first 15 in a zone' rule, it won't matter how long a raid has been camping, 3-4 days it doesn't matter, some other raid can show up an hour before a boss' window opens and agro it first.

How is that not a world of difference?

I mean shit guys, the whole reason camping sucks is cause people want to play the damned game, not tab out and do other stuff. Couple hours-half a day(or whatever a lessened variance would be) is fine, 3 days is not. If you cannot see the difference, then you shouldn't even be in the discussion.

G13 · #54 06-26-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I grow tired of people saying that this system would not change anything. If you take away the 'first 15 in a zone' rule, it won't matter how long a raid has been camping, 3-4 days it doesn't matter, some other raid can show up an hour before a boss' window opens and agro it first.

How is that not a world of difference?

I mean shit guys, the whole reason camping sucks is cause people want to play the damned game, not tab out and do other stuff. Couple hours-half a day(or whatever a lessened variance would be) is fine, 3 days is not. If you cannot see the difference, then you shouldn't even be in the discussion.

The people camping it would sit on the spawn spamming bard AOE damage songs

Also if you already have 15 in the zone in anticipation for the spawn, you are in a much better position strategically to get first aggro. You don't need to wait for 15 to zone in, or port, or to log in ect. You are there, in force, ready.

This rule wouldn't change anything. FFA would just make camping worse. Not better.

Dumesh Uhl'Belk · #55 06-27-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The people camping it would sit on the spawn spamming bard AOE damage songs

Also if you already have 15 in the zone in anticipation for the spawn, you are in a much better position strategically to get first aggro. You don't need to wait for 15 to zone in, or port, or to log in ect. You are there, in force, ready.

This rule wouldn't change anything. FFA would just make camping worse. Not better.

How different the world must be from your perspective where 6-12 horus of camping is worse than 96 hours of camping!

astarothel · #56 06-27-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How different the world must be from your perspective where 6-12 horus of camping is worse than 96 hours of camping!

6 to 12 hours of active camping with 50+ per group isn't a massive improvement over 15 per group semi-afk camping for a longer period of time. It is the act of camping itself which is the issue.

Wrei · #57 06-27-2010, 04:12 PM

This is why I stated previously that in order to cease campers the mobs needs to be put on an even longer variance. Make the bosses pop + or - a month and if that fails (by people going ultra retard), then increase it to + or - 2 months [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] , if they are willing to wait 2months 24/7 then they DESERVE the loot. On a serious note, I'm not sure why we can't try full FFA. Trying it for a couple of weeks won't kill the server...

girth · #58 06-27-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On a serious note, I'm not sure why we can't try full FFA. Trying it for a couple of weeks won't kill the server...

Cause the GM's want it their way even though they do not raid. They want us to come up with some kind of system that doesn't involve them which just is not going to happen. No matter what, there will be people/guilds that cross the line.

girth · #59 06-27-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

6 to 12 hours of active camping with 50+ per group isn't a massive improvement over 15 per group semi-afk camping for a longer period of time. It is the act of camping itself which is the issue.

No. No its not. The issue is not being able to play 85% of the time because you have to be the first 15 in a zone to claim a boss.

astarothel · #60 06-27-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. No its not. The issue is not being able to play 85% of the time because you have to be the first 15 in a zone to claim a boss.

6 Targets* 12 hours variance -- 72 hours. Now assuming that's total hours per week, no windows overlap, thats 60% of a week. That's assuming 24/7. Cut it down to playable hours and it only gets worse.

First 15 relies upon camping. So does this proposal.