stop bringing up the founding fathers in gun arguments

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by hatelore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sigh... I can see now that you are impervious to my caring sense of outreach. Your stage of denial scares me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I have failed.

I see you have given up on trying to support your claims. I am not surprised.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had to look at the stats again because it was hard for me to believe you could be this dense. I actually was convinced I misread those stats somehow. After review, I have not. What I think is the problem is you seem to think that raw numbers somehow equate to rates. They do not. England has been on a steady decline in violent crime rates for over a decade. This is of course based on population. As the population of the country increases so might the violent crime but not necessarily the violent crime rate (violent crime per person).

Sorry you were so confused, if you need further instruction let me know.(I expect you will).

Atari, your too smart for me. Your ability to read raw data and 'apply' them 'correctly' is astonishing. You could at least bring the argument to the level of causation vs. correlation since the data clearly depicts an increase in violent crime after a gun ban was enabled. By the way, did you happen to look up data from before and after the gun ban went into effect or are you talking about a 3 year reduction in overall crime that has nothing to do with a gun ban that was implemented in the 90s?

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What about in D.C. when they banned handuns?
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[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... stupid stuff...

P.S. - I hope the graphs help since you weren't able to read the same data in the original form.

[patriot1776]

alarti isnt interested in facts hes a liberal

[Lexical]

There is a sudden spike in homicides in both those graphs you posted Vayloria, but they don't seem correlated to the gun bans as strongly as you insist since the spike in the DC one begins about 10 years apart and the UK graph has about a 5 year difference. What is actually very interesting about those graphs is the spikes are in the relatively same time period during which violent terrorism was on the rise and we had such terrible tragedies such as 9/11. Due to the similarities, I would place a stronger correlation between the rise of violent terrorism and the homicide rate than the handgun ban. It would also explain why there is only a spike in the number of homicides rather than a consistent rise and eventual plateau which would then lead me to side with you as it was a very clear and consistent rise. But to make a point, generally in statistics if there is a spike in the data there is an outside force that isn't being represented throughout the data. In this case, world events.

[patriot1776]

no proven correlation = causation

more guns = less crime

you slaves should thank those of us with firearms for keeping you safe cuz criminals dont know who has 1 behind the door

[OforOppression]

People who are afraid of their toys being taken are wing nuts like naez that need to be committed

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Lexical [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they don't seem correlated to the gun bans as strongly as you insist.

Two points that I would represent from the graphs, as I mentioned to Alarti. 1) Gun restrictions or prohibitions do not result in less violent crime. 2) The conversation is around the correlation vs. causation of the increase in crime that may or may not be caused by gun restrictions.

While the gun control may or may not have led to an increase in violent crime, to posit that gun control has a marked reduction in crime is just incorrect/irresponsible and in no way can be verified with data. A blanket statement that taking away guns is a good way to reduce crime is a fallacy being used by the left. Looking at the actual data can lead to a reasonable discussion.

[patriot1776]

its not a toy, and you are a dirty liberal communist fuck. go 2 north korea, we'll keep our bill of rights

[Faron]

All these statistics... Are people really trying to prove a point that people are driven to commit violent crimes based on the availability of specific weapons? Barking up the wrong tree.