Why Classic EQ is still the best online RPG (and how P1999 could make it even better)

[Furniture]

Lol @ "I don't care if everquest has no drop items, its MINE I can do what I want!"

Or "I don't care if this item has 5 charges, I can just use the intentional p99 explot and use it as many times as i want! Fuck you original eq devs! You shouldn't have allowed this bug to happen in the first place!"

[Grahm]

i think once you get to the point that when you log into everquest, you're not you, but your character, especially in the depth you went through..........sounds like a medical condition to me.

[Handull]

In classic eq people didn't know what quests were worthwhile and what mobs dropped the Best-in-Slot loot, so they were forced to explore, a lot. Thats what the basis of your table top rpg comparison comes down to. The only way to make an emu as amazing as EQ Classic is to make a world as diverse and detailed as Norrath. With all the answers these days, there is less to explore for the novelty of it. So people try out twinking, PLing, etc.

Along the lines of Roleplaying, why can't I roleplay that my characters know each other in the game world? Why can't my level 50+ <insert race here> have a younger brother, son, cousin of the same or related race, or have found an abandoned little iksar and helped them along their journey? Roleplaying very easily explains twinking. (And you said you have to drop items or trust someone...but you also said the whole point is to play with a party of people and adventure together....so shouldn't they gain your trust as you go?)

MQing isn't a bug, its code that the Devs specifically put into the game. Without MQing big quests (like epics) would have been even harder for people to figure out. Imagine how much it would suck if your guild looted a rare raid mob epic drop (see druid, ragner, wiz, bard, mage, sk, etc) only to a month later finally figure out what class needs that piece, and for it to be completely and utterly useless.

This is an MMO RPG, and will not be exactly the same as a tabletop rpg, which is essentially instanced in your basement. The gaming culture is also shifting from the way it was in 1999. As an early mmo rpg, EQ could be more about the adventure and exploration, but these days players are driven by rewards and upgrades, not simply by delivering mail across OOT for a few peices of platinum, some gold, and a pat on the back.

Not a terrible post, but your ideas could be more thought out.

[Cippofra]

Twinking was much more common on veeshan than it is here. People also had more to twink with. A big part of that is most of the money on this server is owned by people who wont need or use it (the two uber guilds). Which is mostly due to them being around so long and having a big monopoly on anything worth having. These are the issues you see a lot of people crying about (why cant I have a crack at the dragons or gods?) but you never see anyone doing anything about it. Actually, this is another benefit of twinking and power leveling on massive scales I havent thought about it. The server could really benefit from fresh level 60's. People actually trying to compete with the uber guilds rather than crying about it all day. It's a lot like listening to someone that flips burgers at mcdonald's that they deserve to make more money..

[Karafa]

Implying Multi-questing was ever an exploit or a bug.. zzz.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by Karafa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Implying Multi-questing was ever an exploit or a bug.. zzz.

Funny enough logic says that it is a bug because the last item that you receive is no drop. Along with most of the other items also being no drop.

[Alexu]

Originally Posted by Noudess [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you're saying they intended:

selling a used up item after a non-used up one and getting 2 non used ones back?

having a level 12 get xp from a 30 mob via some contorted battle?

MQing items they intentionally made no drop?

Show me any proof of that. They are all such bastardizations of intended functionality and you think its consipracy? Can you back any of that up? No. Its just people*not wanting to give up cheats.

Do you really think that there is absolutely no chance that any of these "bugs" were intentional? You have no way of knowing this without talking to the devs themselves. You can think you know all you want, but you will never know for sure.

The amount of planning and detail that went into this game is absolutely astounding. They had to have foreseen the possibility or even need for powerleveling (e.g. a guild might need extra of a specific class for a certain encounter). Maybe no drop quest reward items were allowed to be MQed, but not intended to be tradeable for reasons beyond your perspective. There are many things to consider here.

It is wonderful that DnD paved the way for this game (God(s) Bless you hard core role-players that made this all possible!), but this game is not DnD. It is its own game.

My argument is not to say that these things were intentionally programmed into the game, but for you to say that they surely were not intended is not something that you have the authority to decide in my opinion.

Not that any of this matters anyway...

[gotrocks]

Originally Posted by Noudness

I don't think, and I never will

Now that i've pointed out that you typed this, I'm sure youll go back and edit to fix it, but for the record folks, that was in his post/is currently in his post.

And you're right, you don't think, and you never will.

First off, you're making assumptions. Many of them. You assume you know what people want. You don't. If you want these things, go make your own server.

Second, you make multiple references to "the original developers intent". I'd like to know just when you sat down with them and asked them what that was. I promise you it wasn't to make a D&D clone, or they would have done that in MMO form. It had been done before in MUDS. Stop thinking you know what people want, what the devs wanted, what the P99 devs want. If you don't like these things, gtfo.

Third, this server is an EQ Classic server. That means things that were present in EQ Classic, are present here. Yes, this includes many bugs/changes that are both for and against us. Hybrid XP penalties were removed in Velious. As is the pet taking half your xp thing. Both are implemented here. Neither are enjoyable, but they are Classic. You simply do not know what you are talking about.

Fourth, your history section was kind of neat, but something I believe most people already knew about. Also, it was a shitty way to try and draw people in and make them interested in what you have to say only to follow it up with your stupid 'i want the server to be *this* way' agenda. You've posted it before. You made a thread on powerleveling, only to be shot down and decide to dress it up and post it again. Stop. We don't want to hear it anymore.

Fifth, just to be clear, since you're so hell bent on cramming it down our throats (and im only going to say this once, so listen carefuly): MAKING IT SO YOU DONT GET XP FROM MOBS TWICE YOUR LEVEL OR HIGHER WOULD NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM POWERLEVELING. This is probably the dumbest solution I've ever heard. people would just kill mobs one level below that limit. Or 5 level below that limit, since at lvl 20 you could still get powerlevel'd on lvl 35 mobs. Smart.

And lastly, stop making these threads. We get it. You don't like these 'gamebreaking' issues. If you dont like it so much, leave. Frankly, I'm pretty disgusted that you wrote this long history of RPG's, left a bunch of stuff out but still had some decent things to say, but it was all so you could simply cram your agenda down our throats again. An agenda that most of us think is stupid. I should have known that was the point of this thread when I saw the author was you, but I honestly didn't look.

All that being said, I know you're just trying to help, but I really only have one thought to leave you with: Fuck off.

[Handull]

Originally Posted by fishingme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny enough logic says that it is a bug because the last item that you receive is no drop. Along with most of the other items also being no drop.

how is MQing a bug? just think for two second about how any reasonable programmer would code an NPC turn in. EQ makes it especially easy, because NPC turn ins can't be stacked. the easy way: player clicks trade, game checks if the items in the trade window match the items required for the quest reward. if yes, player gets reward, if no, return or eat items accordingly. but in order to MQ, the script not only has to remember what was turned in recently, but allow someone else to complete that set of turn ins for a reward.

you know no drop items can be looted by any level toon, right? why isn't that a bug/exploit? with a 7+ minute corpse timer you can easily kill a mob, log over, and be at the corpse b4 the 5 min free loot limit happens. i've done it a ton. would you rather all loot be no drop and you can't loot something unless you or your party god the exp kill? so no more farming green con mobs, if you ran from CB to kelethin to sell rusty weapons and that brass earring finally drops, too bad for you for being out of zone when it happened, etc. EQ eventually put in level suggestions and requirements for items along these lines, but that was when they already messed things up, as you describe it.

and it was said, but yeah, the "twice your level" rule is so silly. most mobs in the game are under level 50, especially the ones people exp off of, even when they are level 59, so that means a level 25+ can get PL'd no problem. Unrest mobs go up to level 35, so that means its still an amazing zone to PL 15-20, and you could easily push that into 21-25. if not unrest for 21-25, then guk/MM/etc still work. below 15 you could just do unrest yard trash/first floor, or if you really want to ruin someone's day go pull ALL of crushbone. CB is good exp for a legit group even into level 15, so it'll be great for a druid to PL a lvl 4-15 toon in no time while literally keeping the entire zone dead.

but enough hate, heres a real solution to the PLing problem that comes up here and there. if gms wanted to take a hard stance to it, make threats of suspensions, and then follow through suspending people who pull PL trains through exp groups and otherwise shit up a zone, then that might help. I haven't PL'd for a long time, but I did do it a bunch, almost always in unrest. I was very careful to usually do it in the morning. if i group was already there, i asked what they were pulling and left those floors up. if a group walked in, i asked what area they wanted to camp, and i left those mobs for them. its not hard to be nice to one another and still have a good PL session.

twinking, recharging, and MQing dont directly effect other players, so dont do it if you dont like it

[Grahm]

Originally Posted by fishingme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny enough logic says that it is a bug because the last item that you receive is no drop. Along with most of the other items also being no drop.

Logic also says, in pure "role-playing" terms, that every thing should be tradeable....whens the last time you went to go give something to a pal and just couldnt end up give it up, cause the thing is stuck to you