And I raaaaaan, I raaaan so far awaaaayyyy

[Ele]

CT, in a normal state, DTs the first person to aggro and goes into seek mode/resets, and starts the zone wide DT timer.

CT then has a second DT (more like super-HT) that he does not always immediate use upon a second person engaging him. CT can melee 1-3 people to death before using this DT.

What can happen:

Person A aggros.
CT DT#1 Person A -> Seek mode
Person B aggros.
Person C aggros.
Person D aggros.
CT DT#2 -> Kills top of aggro list, but two other people are also on the aggro list so he never resets and goes for one of them.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Harazzer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea apparently you must also make a valid attempt to kill the mob as defined by the GM.

Wot? Actually try to kill a mob in order to be elligible for its loot? Whodathunk.

[Tanthallas]

The fact of the matter is that there is nothing stopping CT from being pulled to a raid force - if that is what Sominus said he was doing, anyone's opinion of the cost/benefit of pulling CT is irrelevant. There was a legitimate raid force waiting...it is of zero consequence that TMO engaged it while Sominus was pulling it.

Any rule implemented will have downsides to it. A rule is maintained because it is deemed (by whoever is in authority as such) that the UPSIDES outweigh the DOWNSIDES. The upsides and the downsides coexist. You can place parameters on the rule, such as defining what 'kiting' or 'delaying' is relative to 'engaging, but I fail to see how in this case there was any such parameter put in place other than Ephi's personal opinion about how to interpret what is and is not a 'legitimate' FTE. This is not a parameter, this is a complete reinterpretation of the rule. FTE is first on agro list, given a 'raid force' ready to engage - PERIOD. If another guild ends up killing it, it simply doesn't matter. There have been countless instances of this.

All you are doing is setting the stage for the next conflict, you are not fixing anything. Next time the raid force will just charge TMO instead of trying to pull him, because apparently that is the only relevant factor in this decision.

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Next time the raid force will just charge TMO instead of trying to pull him

fail. I think everyone but Alarti understands the point, however...

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact of the matter is that there is nothing stopping CT from being pulled to a raid force - if that is what Sominus said he was doing, anyone's opinion of the cost/benefit of pulling CT is irrelevant. There was a legitimate raid force waiting...it is of zero consequence that TMO engaged it while Sominus was pulling it.

Any rule implemented will have downsides to it. A rule is maintained because it is deemed (by whoever is in authority as such) that the UPSIDES outweigh the DOWNSIDES. The upsides and the downsides coexist. You can place parameters on the rule, such as defining what 'kiting' or 'delaying' is relative to 'engaging, but I fail to see how in this case there was any such parameter put in place other than Ephi's personal opinion about how to interpret what is and is not a 'legitimate' FTE. This is not a parameter, this is a complete reinterpretation of the rule. FTE is first on agro list, given a 'raid force' ready to engage - PERIOD. If another guild ends up killing it, it simply doesn't matter. There have been countless instances of this.

All you are doing is setting the stage for the next conflict, you are not fixing anything. Next time the raid force will just charge TMO instead of trying to pull him, because apparently that is the only relevant factor in this decision.

LOL pathetic lawyer.

ITT FE MAD that they can't kill raid targets without TMO DPS.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Question: Assume TMO was not near CT when Scorchin was DT'd. Was it more likely than not that CT would have reset before any puller could have gotten on the aggro list after Scorchin's DT?

In short, had TMO waited ~two more seconds to engage, would Scorchin's aggro have been erased from the kill due to mob reset?

[Hasbinlulz]

Why does tmo still need CT?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact of the matter is that there is nothing stopping CT from being pulled to a raid force - if that is what Sominus said he was doing, anyone's opinion of the cost/benefit of pulling CT is irrelevant. There was a legitimate raid force waiting...it is of zero consequence that TMO engaged it while Sominus was pulling it.

Any rule implemented will have downsides to it. A rule is maintained because it is deemed (by whoever is in authority as such) that the UPSIDES outweigh the DOWNSIDES. The upsides and the downsides coexist. You can place parameters on the rule, such as defining what 'kiting' or 'delaying' is relative to 'engaging, but I fail to see how in this case there was any such parameter put in place other than Ephi's personal opinion about how to interpret what is and is not a 'legitimate' FTE. This is not a parameter, this is a complete reinterpretation of the rule. FTE is first on agro list, given a 'raid force' ready to engage - PERIOD. If another guild ends up killing it, it simply doesn't matter. There have been countless instances of this.

All you are doing is setting the stage for the next conflict, you are not fixing anything. Next time the raid force will just charge TMO instead of trying to pull him, because apparently that is the only relevant factor in this decision.

Please, explain the method he was using to pull CT to your raid.

Seems he got FUCKING DT'd, thus wasn't pulling shit to anything.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Question: Assume TMO was not near CT when Scorchin was DT'd. Was it more likely than not that CT would have reset before any puller could have gotten on the aggro list after Scorchin's DT?

In short, had TMO waited ~two more seconds to engage, would Scorchin's aggro have been erased from the kill due to mob reset?

In theory, yes. However from what I heard in vent during you guys were already in aggro range, and we had a guy ready for the pickup, but didn't due to all of you guys there. We got fte and had no chance for an attempt due to this. I personally do not care about the loot, but fte rulings that can be counted on would be nice. Is there now a caveat about fte? I thought sirken made it abundantly clear fte is the end all and be all of engaging.

[Autotune]

"BRB GUYS! GONNA GO SOLO PULL CT TO OUR CAMP!"