Game Mechanics: Pulling while Invisible

[hatelore]

fd/hide meaning a successful hide meant an aggro clear to any mob that could not see through hide.

[Nirgon]

Important issue that I think needs some kind of dev response or discussion.

[hatelore]

The notion that a mob would pass on agrro to a nearby mob while you were pulling it (while invis) and none of the other nearby mobs could see invis is flat out wrong. It was not that way on live during classic,kunark or velious.

[Treats]

The last was the most devious, but also totally explainable.
I was in SolA. A goblin shaman was green to me, and thus too chicken to
attack me. However, he could see me, and this allowed him to share his hate
list with everyone around him. Meaning me. This is effectively a 0 mana,
instantaneous cast of see invis for every mob within normal aggro range (and
through walls).
This, still, didn't matter, until a Blue to Me non-casting melee goblin
of some description, wandered by. While he couldn't see me, he could take
the hate list of the shaman, and poof, he could instantly attack me. (I
love how invisibility doesn't actually make you invisible).
The kicker is, that since a BTM had aggroed on me... all the little
greenies took courage from him, and joined the fight.
So when I gated, I was busy bandaging quickly trying to fight the DOT
that that little shaman had stung me with... grrr, should have blasted it
out of its boots before it got help.

Did some of you not even read this post?

This explains why it IT WILL NOT WORK if the mobs are on the same faction.

The Goblin Shaman was green.
The Player was too high for the Goblin to attack him.
The Goblin had to have SOME WAY to pass the aggro onto the blue melee Goblin that could not see invis.

The Green Goblin Shaman could See Invisible (Which is exactly what any mob that is pulled can do -- They can see the player regardless if he is Invis or not and therefore transfer their hatelist to anything that will assist)

[Treats]

After further testing on the MAC server Invis pulling does in fact work there.

However, it requires a VERY unique set of circumstances. It has to do primarily with DIRECT aggro and ASSIST aggro, the two are separate mechanics. Any mob that you have DIRECT aggro on can pass its hate list onto any other mob it passes of the same faction regardless if you are Invisible or not. Any mob that is ASSISTING the mob you have DIRECT aggro on CANNOT pass its hate list to anything else if you are Invisible.

Example:

Lets say you have two guards right next to each other in Freeport
They are in assist radius of each other
Root one of the guards (This is Direct aggro)
Immediately Invis yourself
The other guard will assist and come chasing after you (This is Assist aggro)
You can now take the guard that is chasing you (with assist aggro) anywhere in the zone and it cannot pass its hate list to any other mob while you are Invisible
If that guard catches you or comes into its predetermined aggro radius of you direct aggro now applies and it can pass his hate list to anything else

This should be about the final nail in the coffin on this issue as it proves that pulling with Invis is still possible on the EQMac server.

This is pretty solid as to how it should work, if anyone has any reliable links or patch notes that say otherwise please post them.

No more memories.

[anotherfiz]

This will not get sorted out.

There are too many people on this server who "claim" to have been "high end pullers" in "high end raid guilds" who "did this all the time". In reality, they are riding on the coattails of people who used told them stories of invis pulling in VP, and figured that it must be able to be extrapolated to all zones.

I challenge anyone who has an experience single pulling any zone with invis on Live, pre Luclin, to post their experience here, and I will retort with the reasons about why it worked in YOUR circumstance but would not work in ALL circumstances.

Faction's played a much bigger role in Velious than people understand. I'm going to use Kael Drakkal as an example since its the second most cited source besides VP. Yes, there were two main factions (giant and dragon), but what seems to be missed here is the entirety of Kael Drakkal was NOT on the same giant faction. There was Kromzek faction, Tormax faction, and even a few others. There were mobs in Kael who were on 1 faction that surrounded by mobs of another faction that COULD be single pulled with invis. (Hint, most quest mobs were on their own faction in kael) Im sure there are people who remember being KoS to half of the mobs in the Giant quest room.

For those of you saying that it was ninja patched "some time after velious" - Veeshan's Peak was DESIGNED with invis pulling in mind. This is why the dragons were on different factions and with two minute spawn times, invis pulling non faction linked mobs was a major strategy. Major and intended strategies do not get changed with a ninja patch that shows no change-logs.

This whole situation saddens me because it is breaking the nature of this game - which was challenge of its environment, not the individual mobs.

To those of you saying that you can invis pull anywhere, again, i beg you. Either provide proof , or relay your circumstances on this thread so that I can explain what factions you were not aware of.


TLDR - there is no evidence of a change in invis pulling because it never changed. It still the same on live. Believers - the burden is on YOU to prove otherwise

[kanras]

Pending update:
- Added the distinction between direct and indirect hate.
- Mobs with indirect hate (obtained by another mob yelling for help) on a target cannot yell for help to transfer hate for their target to another NPC.
- The only way to prevent the transfer of direct hate to another nearby NPC is to be sneaking in the proper area of that NPC's visibility. Invis/IVU/Hide etc. no longer have any impact on whether direct aggro will be transferred.

[Nirgon]

God damn Kanras.

Way to keep it classic as shit dawg.

[heartbrand]

does this mean translation invis pulling dead?

[Nizzarr]

Love it.

Good job.