FTE is Fing stupid

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by canker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hate this argument. most TMO members have full time jobs or significant others/families to care about, just like everyone else. we do have some members that have slightly less responsibilities than the rest, but it's a large minority compared to the guild as a whole.

where we are different from most casual players/non-raiders is that we're able to balance our time in real life and in everquest to create a healthy compromise between the two. it's not a particularly easy thing to do, and some people just can't figure it out even with time. but to say that just because you or others have real life responsibilities that prevent people from experiencing end game content is just a weak and flimsy excuse. everyone does. it's about achieving balance between the things in your life.

as others have said, we also have players from all over the world. our majority are north american or european time based players, but we have players with different schedules and playtimes to ensure our guilds presence at all times of the day.

Kind of sounds like TMO is more casual than casual guilds. This is the problem of the raid scene right here. TMO has players in all time zones able to log on at a moment's notice with the numbers to kill a mob. With those numbers over those time zones, you can also pass around the tracking responsibilities in a way that folks aren't tracking for hours at a time through the night. With those numbers, you've been able to acquire the wealth you need to buy toons (something else I think this server should not allow) to park at raid mobs negating any need to mobilize.

Now, the server is in a situation where if you want pixels you 1.) Join TMO where you don't have to fight TMO to get them, or 2.) Join another guild and work 10x harder than anyone in TMO does to try and beat the zerg that can log on with the numbers at any time of day. At any rate, this isn't good for the server on both sides. On TMO's end, once you have your pixels and Velious isn't out yet, what do you do? You get bored and leave, unless you like farming plat and gearing 10 alts. On every other guild's end, you get burned out and frustrated trying to fight the Borg for pixels. Any kind of rotation, even a 1 to 7 rotation where folks could show up without worrying about wasting umpteen hours of their time would keep folks from quitting the server entirely.

And sans rotation, some limits on guild size would level the playing field considerably.

[Savok]

Originally Posted by toyodafenninro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As Jeremy said, we've given lots of shots to those who show some moxie.

Does having a monk stand up and get FTE without a raid count as giving people shots? Guilds have proven that they can kill said mob (not just BDA but others too) with the right force in place.

I have no issue racing a guild for a mob and backing out when you know you have been beaten but to do crappy things like the above will just turn people away from raiding, period. You will just end up with all of the mobs to farm yourselves because nobody else will want to bother.

Like someone said above it just becomes a cockblock rather than playing for fun.

[Teppler]

BDA shouldn't be kicking their higher level active members who want to raid then start complaining about their raiding situation.

[toyodafenninro]

Originally Posted by Savok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does having a monk stand up and get FTE without a raid count as giving people shots? Guilds have proven that they can kill said mob (not just BDA but others too) with the right force in place.

I have no issue racing a guild for a mob and backing out when you know you have been beaten but to do crappy things like the above will just turn people away from raiding, period. You will just end up with all of the mobs to farm yourselves because nobody else will want to bother.

Like someone said above it just becomes a cockblock rather than playing for fun.

I'm not addressing any particular incident of FTE arguing that's happened between BDA and TMO. Those will continue to happen as long as FTE is the metric used. Your first question does not require an answer - it's obvious. Having said this - the ability to kill a mob with the right force in place doesn't entitle someone to a mob, either. As has been beaten to death, GM's understand FTE is a flawed metric but it is the closest thing to a data based decision that can be used at the current time. The staff isn't stupid.
<p>
As far as "doing crappy things," (?) - I chalk FTE arguments/other crappy stuff and a bit of lawyering to be par for the course when it comes to raid guild relations. It doesn't bother me. What Jeremy and I were referring to was clearly stated: up and coming guilds who want to test their mettle against targets for the first time. This was the case in his example of Full Circle in PoF, and I have seen numerous similar occasions. When it's obvious that, as you said, the guild can take the target with a reasonable expectation of success, the gloves are off. We will compete and may the best guild win.

[toyodafenninro]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And sans rotation, some limits on guild size would level the playing field considerably.

Not only would a move like this be unprecedented, it would be unenforceable. Groups of people who want to play together will do so, regardless of how guilds are required to be divided. There would be no way for GM's to realistically enforce something like this when players would simply split larger guilds into two smaller forces on paper, and work together to kill mobs. Senario: "TMO Adam Squad assisted TMO Boy Squad on Trakanon this morning." Both squads had 30 people.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by canker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hate this argument. most TMO members have full time jobs or significant others/families to care about, just like everyone else. we do have some members that have slightly less responsibilities than the rest, but it's a large minority compared to the guild as a whole.

where we are different from most casual players/non-raiders is that we're able to balance our time in real life and in everquest to create a healthy compromise between the two. it's not a particularly easy thing to do, and some people just can't figure it out even with time. but to say that just because you or others have real life responsibilities that prevent people from experiencing end game content is just a weak and flimsy excuse. everyone does. it's about achieving balance between the things in your life.

as others have said, we also have players from all over the world. our majority are north american or european time based players, but we have players with different schedules and playtimes to ensure our guilds presence at all times of the day.

I don't know everyone in TMO, and I have no reason to suggest that most of them don't have lives outside of the game. But like another poster said, it's the fact that TMO (and BDA) are so large that allows them to not spend that much time on the game. It's the fact that raiding on this server (unlike on Live) demands so much time that necessitates TMO and BDA having such large raid forces. Most of the smaller guilds are lucky to get 20-25 people a night, how can they regularly compete against a raid force that's three times their size? If you have three times as many people, you will probably mobilize three times as fast. By the time we have a group up in hate for Inny, you guys have an entire raid force.

Now that isn't TMO or BDA's fault. I'm not suggesting you guys split up or cut down on your numbers, or bring less people to raids. But I'm just giving you some perspective as to why casual guilds can't compete at the same level - if we did, we would have to spend all our time tracking and neglect our RL responsibilities, because we don't have enough people to pass tracking responsibilities around to. This has probably been the #1 reason why the raid scene has always been dominated by 1 or 2 guilds on p99, while on Live content was spread more evenly.

Add to that the fact that casual guilds tend to have stricter recruiting requirements. Add to that the fact that mobs often spawn at ridiculous times like 3 or 4 AM eastern, when almost no one is awake. I've tracked mobs for days only to have it spawn early in the morning - a small guild can't have an enormous european contingent that logs in immediately once a mob spawns. So people get discouraged, they stop tracking, they miss a few TOD's, and you get what we have now: a raid scene where for the most part, only 2 guilds bother to compete over raid mobs.

The solution isn't for everyone to rotate mobs, or for everyone to play nicer, or for TMO to give us handouts, it's for the system to be changed so that I don't have to spend up to 96 hours straight pressing "track" just for a chance at pixels. I know very few people who would waste that much time for a guarantee at pixels, how many do you think will do it for a ~33% chance at it?

2 and a half months ago Nilbog said he had a proposal to fix all this. What happened to that?: http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...6&postcount=72

[quido]

I want to go trick-or-treating at the age of 18 without so much as donning a costume.

[Knightt]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want to go trick-or-treating at the age of 18 without so much as donning a costume.

hey i done this LMAO rolled a phat one wanted some candy and grabbed a pillowcase

[Tarathiel]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The solution isn't for everyone to rotate mobs, or for everyone to play nicer, or for TMO to give us handouts, it's for the system to be changed so that I don't have to spend up to 96 hours straight pressing "track" just for a chance at pixels. I know very few people who would waste that much time for a guarantee at pixels, how many do you think will do it for a ~33% chance at it?

2 and a half months ago Nilbog said he had a proposal to fix all this. What happened to that?: http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...6&postcount=72

this is pretty spot on, more available targets over-all would go a long way to appease the masses

[Tarathiel]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want to go trick-or-treating at the age of 18 without so much as donning a costume.

stop trolling this thread, damn