FTE is Fing stupid

[Llabak]

Originally Posted by Daliant17447 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So when competing normally (camping out buffed, batphone, log in, group up and engage faster than other guild) didn't work out, you move on to simply trying to snipe FTE without even camping out a raid force (I think you guys had 9 or 10 in zone today when we engaged, and we took our sweet ass time), and now since that route didn't work out you ask for a rotation? lol

Goes both way. Last week (or was it the week before?) TMO wiped on Trak and sniped FTE with a skeleton crew of people, half of whom were still rez-effected. Regardless of who is doing it, it sucks.

FWIW, I've said as much to my guild. FTE sniping is stupid.

[Daliant17447]

FTE sniping is real easy to avoid or overcome. If you move in to engage and another guild snipes FTE, you back out, camp and let that guild wipe. FTE sniping is never really an issue if you have someone in position to take FTE at a moments notice when your guild is ready to engage.

Trak for example, have a necro FD under trak, when you guys are ready, have that person stand and immediately DA. Or have a monk FD within jav range and when you are ready to engage have that person stand and throw a jav. Anyone attempting to steal your FTE won't be able to react fast enough to do so.

I think the FTE rules on this server are fine and allow for healthy competition. An FTE "shout" would be nice though. The only time the FTE rule is stupid is when you have 2 guilds logged in sitting on top of a spawn point. Then it just comes down to who gets lucky with RNG and its a waste of everyone's time. In these situations it would be better if it was just a straight up dps contest and the guild with the best KS group wins.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Daliant17447 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FTE sniping is real easy to avoid or overcome. If you move in to engage and another guild snipes FTE, you back out, camp and let that guild wipe. FTE sniping is never really an issue if you have someone in position to take FTE at a moments notice when your guild is ready to engage.

If you can tell who actually got FTE, yes. However, don't sit here and tell me you can, when there have been multiple instances of GMs having to go back through encounter logs to determine FTE and re-awarding loot.

Don't tell me the mantra isn't "turn in your epic items ASAP so the GMs can't take them away" on a questionable FTE.

Having raid mobs shout/indicate FTE is the only way to go to prevent the FTE drama. Then, the guild without FTE can do what you said above. Unfortunately, I've been told Velious is the priority vs. implementing anything that would lessen GM involvement in the raid scene. Right now, since FTE is questionable, the only option is to stay and finish the kill and ask for a review of the encounter logs... which is stupid.

[Kraftwerk]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unfortunately, I've been told Velious is the priority vs. implementing anything that would lessen GM involvement in the raid scene.

As an aside, the other way of looking at that is when Velious comes out there are tons more raid targets and things to do, so while we're all occupied with non poopsocking endeavors they can come up with good plans to stop the FTE madness.

Also I was there during that 110 people in OS shitfest last Sunday. If the lag hadn't spiked everyone out Trak would've died in like 5 seconds and then GM petition for FTE. Doesn't TMO want us in VP, then they can train us for legit and kill us. I like your idea Berty, even if I don't raid much so my opinion is far from mattering.

[Daliant17447]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can tell who actually got FTE, yes. However, don't sit here and tell me you can, when there have been multiple instances of GMs having to go back through encounter logs to determine FTE and re-awarding loot.

The cases where GMs have to check encounter logs are the situations where you have 2 guilds sitting on a spawn point and the mob spawns and goes into "seek mode". Its impossible to tell who got FTE in these situations without a GM checking encounter logs. OR situations where idiots "think" they got FTE and petition for a GM to come confirm that they are idiots (today for example).

For situations where a mob is just chilling un-engaged (like Trakanon), its pretty simple really - don't send your guild in unless you are 100% that you engaged first.

[Xanthias]

Originally Posted by Daliant17447 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The cases where GMs have to check encounter logs are the situations where you have 2 guilds sitting on a spawn point and the mob spawns and goes into "seek mode". Its impossible to tell who got FTE in these situations without a GM checking encounter logs.

For situations where a mob is just chilling un-engaged (like Trakanon), its pretty simple really - don't send your guild in unless you are 100% that you engaged first.

The only FTE change I'd like to see is First to ENGAGE, not first to be beat on by a mob...
Seek mode FTE is dumb imo.

[Portsche]

BDA's little FTE Snipe attempt today on Trak with 8-9 people was pretty stupid. We've been through this in the past with TMO/TR. TR beat us, got the FTE...but they only had 12-15 or so people in the zone. No way were they killing Trak with that. Rogean showed up, noticed their numbers, and for lack of a better wording, told them to piss off and awarded the kill/loots to TMO.

The idiots in BDA that are feeding the rest of their guild all the crap need to get their info straight. Learn the rules, learn what has happened in various situations in the past, and work with it. Whining gets you nowhere, haven't you figured that out yet?

The only way you're getting a rotation out of TMO is by consistently beating us with the rules the way they are now. Same way we did it to TR/IB.

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well 6 Venrils suggest that BDA can compete for raid mobs and are consistently taking them away from TMO.

And VS can be one-grouped, so your logic is flawed on that.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Portsche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BDA's little FTE Snipe attempt today on Trak with 8-9 people was pretty stupid. We've been through this in the past with TMO/TR. TR beat us, got the FTE...but they only had 12-15 or so people in the zone. No way were they killing Trak with that. Rogean showed up, noticed their numbers, and for lack of a better wording, told them to piss off and awarded the kill/loots to TMO.

Or more recently TMO FTE sniped Trak with 17 in zone, but was still awarded loot. Your low numbers argument is not valid with recent decisions. Sirken, for better or worse, has stuck strictly to FTE, almost to the point of disregarding his own statement in Server chat.

I'm still a fan of the FTE shout, but I've heard that can be abused. I don't understand how FTE shout can be abused any more than FTE though, since the shout is built off the same mechanic as the actual event. If you can't abuse the event, how can you abuse the recording of said event?

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Portsche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only way you're getting a rotation out of TMO is by consistently beating us with the rules the way they are now. Same way we did it to TR/IB.

And VS can be one-grouped, so your logic is flawed on that.

With this attitude and the way TMO approaches other guilds on this server, if any other guild present or future consistently beats TMO to mobs, I'd say good luck getting a rotation.

[kbnexus]

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Goes both way. Last week (or was it the week before?) TMO wiped on Trak and sniped FTE with a skeleton crew of people, half of whom were still rez-effected. Regardless of who is doing it, it sucks.

FWIW, I've said as much to my guild. FTE sniping is stupid.

.... except our skeleton crew was 26 VP geared raiders.....way more than enough to kill Trak.

So really..... it doesnt go both ways, as much as BDA likes to delude itself.