Obvious RMT is Obvious

[Newguy]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree however you have no substantial evidence, just some text you even admitted to editing. How extensively is based only on your word. Word of mouth is not enough to incriminate someone.
Also, you confess to having knowledge of an rmt salesman. A confession however can self-incriminate.

So what we have here is daliant is innocent until proven guilty, but you are guilty by your own admission.

lol k dude i only edited names and emails out of respect but keep making it harder for your little butt buddy Daliant aka Andy Benton his other email address that i had edited out the post pdga17447@gmail.com.

Have you looked at your website and confirm this or the other one is not the email he used to register? I bet not and if you have and chances are he used one of them. You would not post here because you are a pussy.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Newguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol k dude i only edited names and emails out of respect but keep making it harder for your little butt buddy Daliant aka Andy Benton his other email address that i had edited out the post pdga17447@gmail.com.

Have you looked at your website and confirm this or the other one is not the email he used to register? I bet not and if you have and chances are he used one of them. You would not post here because you are a pussy.

I'm not defending daliant, I'm attacking your lack of evidence. I can't check his email on the webpage I'm not an admin. However, if his email was the same all that means is you have his email? How is tha substantial evidence?

Him rmting is just as feasible as you being a jilted lover out for revenge at this point.

[Newguy]

How would i know his RL name his email add or every single one of his toons name?

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not defending daliant, I'm attacking your lack of evidence. I can't check his email on the webpage I'm not an admin. However, if his email was the same all that means is you have his email? How is tha substantial evidence?

Him rmting is just as feasible as you being a jilted lover out for revenge at this point.

Man, this is why I told you it was stupid to beg the question.

You're having names and evidence thrown at you, and you have no way to disprove any of it. You're right -- that entire copy/paste job could have been falsified. Which is why you never should have asked for it. Now anyone reading this thread is left with the impression that either this random poster that was being badgered for details went to the trouble of falsely creating an entire dialogue with a totally innocent person, complete with RL name, e-mail addresses, and in-game character names -- or Daliant simply RMT'd. Which do you think sounds more likely?

Moreover, you've gone from a generic claim about certain members of TMO having RMT'd to Daliant being pinpointed with his purchases, RL name, and e-mail addresses being plastered on the board. If a GM actually cared (and if Daliant wasn't such a nice guy in game), this information would probably be enough to get him banned for RMT -- and it never would've seen daylight had you just left well enough alone.

By pushing this "TMO doesn't harbor cheaters" angle, you're not doing what you're trying to do. There are cheaters in your guild. Don't argue -- there are. It's not your fault or anyone else's fault, it's unavoidable. And it's not unique to TMO. So stop wasting your energy trying to prove there aren't. All you're going to do is invite more and more accusations that you have no way of combating.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man, this is why I told you it was stupid to beg the question.

You're having names and evidence thrown at you, and you have no way to disprove any of it. You're right -- that entire copy/paste job could have been falsified. Which is why you never should have asked for it. Now anyone reading this thread is left with the impression that either this random poster that was being badgered for details went to the trouble of falsely creating an entire dialogue with a totally innocent person, complete with RL name, e-mail addresses, and in-game character names -- or Daliant simply RMT'd. Which do you think sounds more likely?

Moreover, you've gone from a generic claim about certain members of TMO having RMT'd to Daliant being pinpointed with his purchases, RL name, and e-mail addresses being plastered on the board. If a GM actually cared (and if Daliant wasn't such a nice guy in game), this information would probably be enough to get him banned for RMT -- and it never would've seen daylight had you just left well enough alone.

By pushing this "TMO doesn't harbor cheaters" angle, you're not doing what you're trying to do. There are cheaters in your guild. Don't argue -- there are. It's not your fault or anyone else's fault, it's unavoidable. And it's not unique to TMO. So stop wasting your energy trying to prove there aren't. All you're going to do is invite more and more accusations that you have no way of combating.

You are confused, if there are cheaters/rmters in our guild I absolutely want it known and the evidence to come out.
However, nothing has been posted yet to prove that so I am inviting more "evidence".

Luckily for me I don't really need to prove innocence. The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

[HIYO]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Luckily for me I don't really need to prove innocence. The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

This is not a court room. The only thing on the line is your reputation, so obviously nothing is on the line. No wonder why you continue to act the fool.

Have a great day !

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are confused, if there are cheaters/rmters in our guild I absolutely want it known and the evidence to come out.
However, nothing has been posted yet to prove that so I am inviting more "evidence".

Luckily for me I don't really need to prove innocence. The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Once again, "evidence" is a red herring that doesn't exist and that isn't fooling anyone in this thread -- you're working against yourself. You keep stomping your feet and saying "that doesn't prove anything", but nothing would prove what you want proven. There is absolutely no way to prove that Daliant RMT'd without logs that are accessible only to GMs. Everyone knows that -- so when you ask for evidence, you make yourself (or more pertinently, the people you're defending) look guilty.

The guy provided e-mail addresses, an RL name, and a long enough dialogue to satisfy concerns about fabrication -- to most reasonable people, that's enough to assume Daliant probably did RMT. Honestly, I entered this thread thinking Daliant was a friendly guy, good player, and highly unlikely to RMT. I'm a third party -- it means nothing to me whether he did or not. When that poster accused TMO members, Daliant didn't come to mind at all. Then you asked for names, he said Daliant, and he even told you what items he bought. That made me wonder, but I still doubted it. You kept pushing and he provided the e-mails, an e-mail address, and a name -- and now I'd say I lean toward believing Daliant probably did RMT. I don't know a lot of trolls that would go through the trouble of fabricating an entire string of e-mails and throwing out e-mail addresses and a RL name just to make a totally innocent person look bad. And if a troll were to do that, I don't think they'd exercise the restraint of holding back pertinent details and only providing them after being badgered for them. They'd have just posted it all at once. I doubt I'm the only person that's been convinced.

And the only reason that happened is because you keep asking for more 'evidence'. Let it be and let the conversation go back to RMT and the server's health, rather than pushing the ridiculous argument that nobody in TMO RMTs. They clearly do.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once again, "evidence" is a red herring that doesn't exist and that isn't fooling anyone in this thread -- you're working against yourself. You keep stomping your feet and saying "that doesn't prove anything", but nothing would prove what you want proven. There is absolutely no way to prove that Daliant RMT'd without logs that are accessible only to GMs. Everyone knows that -- so when you ask for evidence, you make yourself (or more pertinently, the people you're defending) look guilty.

The guy provided e-mail addresses, an RL name, and a long enough dialogue to satisfy concerns about fabrication -- to most reasonable people, that's enough to assume Daliant probably did RMT. Honestly, I entered this thread thinking Daliant was a friendly guy, good player, and highly unlikely to RMT. I'm a third party -- it means nothing to me whether he did or not. When that poster accused TMO members, Daliant didn't come to mind at all. Then you asked for names, he said Daliant, and he even told you what items he bought. That made me wonder, but I still doubted it. You kept pushing and he provided the e-mails, an e-mail address, and a name -- and now I'd say I lean toward believing Daliant probably did RMT. I don't know a lot of trolls that would go through the trouble of fabricating an entire string of e-mails and throwing out e-mail addresses and a RL name just to make a totally innocent person look bad. And if a troll were to do that, I don't think they'd exercise the restraint of holding back pertinent details and only providing them after being badgered for them. They'd have just posted it all at once. I doubt I'm the only person that's been convinced.

And the only reason that happened is because you keep asking for more 'evidence'. Let it be and let the conversation go back to RMT and the server's health, rather than pushing the ridiculous argument that nobody in TMO RMTs. They clearly do.

There is away to prove if he rmt'd send the information to server devs, if he gets banned, Blamo!

You second paragraph is an argument ad populum, and it seems in character to make up shit about people if you are willing to make an anon troll account to just rnf. If you think this personality type is highly uncommon ill direct you to 4chan or similar internet hubs of scum.
Belief is not a burden of proof, but then again I am an atheist and am not prone to such fantasies of the mind. I may believe Daliant has done something shady but my rational mind knows to investigate further for real evidence.
I will always take the word of a guildie or someone i know over some anon forum troll.


I dont think that everyone in TMO is guilt free. We have reason to believe that Durison RMT'd or was rmting so we booted him and outing him. We have no reason to believe Daliant is rmting however. Every cheater we or someone else has identified with real evidence has been booted.

[Alarti0001]

Also to clear up what a generic red herring is since you seem misinformed

Red herring – argument given in response to another argument, which is irrelevant and draws attention away from subject of argument

Substantial evidence is the argument and is ALWAYS relevant

[Mantel]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.I dont think that everyone in TMO is guilt free. We have reason to believe that Durison RMT'd or was rmting so we booted him and outing him. We have no reason to believe Daliant is rmting however. Every cheater we or someone else has identified with real evidence has been booted.

LOL you had reason to believe Duri was RMTing.. you mean.. "we waited to "boot" Durison till after he stripped not only his toon but other guildys toon and then sold all items, and changed his phone # oh and a GM confirmed he did indeed strip the toons. Oh and Durison even admitted it.
At this point we had our "evidence" that he was indeed RMTing, so we went ahead and removed him.