TMO raid suspension secretly lifted

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look if TMO wants to argue that their raid suspension was wrong/misguided, fine. I've never seen the video, and I wasn't there, so I can't judge.

But I hope Amelinda realizes that she has just totally sabotaged her credibility with everyone now. Repealing the ban was already a bad idea. What happened to "it's time for the raiding guilds to take me seriously?" Well no one is going to take you seriously when you flip-flop on your decisions based on facebook posts, and then try to hide this by telling TMO to keep it quiet.

If you want a decent raiding community on P1999, you need to do:
1] Zonewide shouts on first aggro
2] Periodic server repops every ~2 weeks
3] Full variance: give every raid mob a 1/N chance to spawn every tick thus eliminating poopsocking
4] "Raid Guild Petition forum" where each guildleader gets a maximum of 2 petitions per week, fraps is required, EVERYONE can see the evidence, and EVERY petition is answered.
5] Actual consistency with enforcing decisions.

Or just actually live up to the purpose statement of the server and be classic.

I don't know what server you all played on, but on Quellious, when we petitioned about getting trained in NToV, here was the GM response:

There was no play nice policy, the GMs didn't mediate every dispute, they didn't try to micromanage every encounter. I understand why the GMs here are trying to enforce a play nice policy, but it's simply unattainable. You have 200 people that all want the same thing and most are willing to lie, cheat, and grief their way to getting it. Every loophole, every weakness, every gray area will be exploited. It's never going to end. And in the process, you're going to completely neglect the rest of the server because you're so busy with the raiding scene.

Let them train, let them KS, let them compete. It'll be miserable for everyone for 2 weeks, and then they'll all come to civil agreements because nobody wants to spend 8 hours CRing. Let them police each other.

Spend your time going after RMTers and helping resolve run-of-the-mill petitions instead.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or just actually live up to the purpose statement of the server and be classic.

I don't know what server you all played on, but on Quellious, when we petitioned about getting trained in NToV, here was the GM response:

There was no play nice policy, the GMs didn't mediate every dispute, they didn't try to micromanage every encounter. I understand why the GMs here are trying to enforce a play nice policy, but it's simply unattainable. You have 200 people that all want the same thing and most are willing to lie, cheat, and grief their way to getting it. Every loophole, every weakness, every gray area will be exploited. It's never going to end. And in the process, you're going to completely neglect the rest of the server because you're so busy with the raiding scene.

Let them train, let them KS, let them compete. It'll be miserable for everyone for 2 weeks, and then they'll all come to civil agreements because nobody wants to spend 8 hours CRing. Let them police each other.

Spend your time going after RMTers and helping resolve run-of-the-mill petitions instead.

I'm quite ok with this. And I agree; it'll be nasty as hell for 2 weeks and then people will come to an agreement. But right now we have server rules that are selectively and secretly enforced. So either we need transparency and consistency, or no rules.

[Kassel]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or just actually live up to the purpose statement of the server and be classic.

I don't know what server you all played on, but on Quellious, when we petitioned about getting trained in NToV, here was the GM response:

There was no play nice policy, the GMs didn't mediate every dispute, they didn't try to micromanage every encounter. I understand why the GMs here are trying to enforce a play nice policy, but it's simply unattainable. You have 200 people that all want the same thing and most are willing to lie, cheat, and grief their way to getting it. Every loophole, every weakness, every gray area will be exploited. It's never going to end. And in the process, you're going to completely neglect the rest of the server because you're so busy with the raiding scene.

Let them train, let them KS, let them compete. It'll be miserable for everyone for 2 weeks, and then they'll all come to civil agreements because nobody wants to spend 8 hours CRing. Let them police each other.

Spend your time going after RMTers and helping resolve run-of-the-mill petitions instead.

I played on quellious and there was a GM enforced rotation in NTOV after weeks of bitching between Lotus cult and Vis Maior. Ya thats right a GM enforced rotation on live, in the classic trilogy period.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Kassel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played on quellious and there was a GM enforced rotation in NTOV after weeks of bitching between Lotus cult and Vis Maior. Ya thats right a GM enforced rotation on live, in the classic trilogy period.

It was more than weeks before the rotation went into effect, and it was only GM-enforced in that the GMs enforced the agreement that VM and LC came to. Both guilds scrapped and clawed in NToV until the GMs demanded they come to an agreement or get booted out of NToV. They agreed on a rotation and the GMs "enforced" it, although I can't remember an instance when there was an attempt to break the agreement. FWIW, that agreement lasted into Luclin and beyond.

I'd be fine with that, too, but I was getting at the early days of NToV on Quellious. There were no rules, and it was fun as hell.

[Once]

So whats with all this high level gear being sold on EC suddenly?

[Bruman]

Originally Posted by Once [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So whats with all this high level gear being sold on EC suddenly?

Apparently some IB members are "done" with the server, like Szeth and maybe Motec, at the least.

If you mean over the past few weeks, it's because epics are replacing some high end gear, plus raid gear saturation has finally hit. After a year of farming the same content, I think bank alts are finally filling up.

[relapsee69]

Originally Posted by Once [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So whats with all this high level gear being sold on EC suddenly?

IB leaving to play on eqmac

[Frieza_Prexus]

No, the principle doesn't hold. They have logs here, there are fraps, everything can be documented in a highly controlled environment. If every crime occurred between the same two gangs, on video camera, and within a 12-block radius, there wouldn't be any reason for an appeals process. They're not policing an entire country with a hundred thousand different laws, they're policing a few zones in a video game with 3 or 4 rules that warrant suspension. Unlike in the real world, certainty is not only possible, it should be requisite for such a large-scale punishment.

If you're not sure, you don't make the call for a guild-wide raid suspension. If you are sure, you don't change your mind just because you're being harassed.

We submitted our own evidence and matched it up with the other submission to verify it. This was enough to make a difference. You're assuming perfect information exists. That is fallacious.

You're disallowing the possibility of error. The principle I cited absolutely does transfer. To use my previous example: this is a reason superior courts exist in the real world. Error can creep into a ruling at any level, and lack of corrective procedure is manifestly unjust.

Would you happily submit to a punishment that you believed, in good faith, to be erroneous?

I suspect you would not.