Nondisclosure of account status

[Nirgon]

So a screenshot of that mob dead in the Skarlon hallway with a bunch of people with no fire resist gear, after we took the strat from a member who was in the guild is not enough evidence.

You mention your opinion on the situation is irrelevant, where I believe it was entirely at your discretion outside of the rules that a public announcement was made regarding GM decisions enacted upon players/accounts/guilds. It seems that your opinion is quite relevant.

I think the answer is we regrettably have to say GMs did not monitor the kills after a bug (obvious after looking at logs) was posted. Unfortunate, but the case. Further we have to, as a community, understand that if a GM does not witness it, screen shots are irrelevant after we were told they would be. Okay, and moving on..

And in summary, the rule is if a GM does not witness, it is permitted despite contrary evidence and can expect that our shot to compete fairly is subject to spot checks (3 kills later for them, once after they report us).

I understand it is no one's "job" to watch every raid mob kill. Fair.

I understand if it's not witnessed (with great hesitation saying so because of the overwhelming evidence offered and considering our source of obtaining the exploit) that no action will be taken.

Where you lose me though, is can I really expect that on an off night if you see a log of me pulling Nagafen and only a mage and a druid killing it, that no action will be taken against me if a GM is not present?

A yes or no answer is the last nail in the coffin for many of us on that last point.

[Rogean]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where you lose me though, is can I really expect that on an off night if you see a log of me pulling Nagafen and only a mage and a druid killing it, that no action will be taken against me if a GM is not present?

A yes or no answer is the last nail in the coffin for many of us on that last point.

Depends.

How long was the fight, dDoes the log show the full damage of the mob's HP (The mob wasn't mem blurred)? etc...

Other miscellaneous things like that would need to be checked. At that point I would ban you, at the very least for an explanation (Which you wouldn't have if you didn't kill it legitimately).

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Depends.

How long was the fight, dDoes the log show the full damage of the mob's HP (The mob wasn't mem blurred)? etc...

Other miscellaneous things like that would need to be checked. At that point I would ban you, at the very least for an explanation (Which you wouldn't have if you didn't kill it legitimately).

And the explanation for their previous kills? Admitting the mob was bugged out and killed.

I suggest I pull a similar tactic. You state the contrary, that an unwitnessed act can in fact be punished.

We make clear that the current state of the dragon being killed is that it is pulled over and over until it bugs. Amelinda posts a snippet from one of many attempts where they are working to get the dragon to bug out but not the kill under a "There! See!" pretense, like I'm a fool.

I'm sorry Rogean, but I this has changed my opinions regarding a situation I thought would not exist. I can't see how anyone can agree with this decision.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So a screenshot of that mob dead in the Skarlon hallway with a bunch of people with no fire resist gear, after we took the strat from a member who was in the guild is not enough evidence.

You mention your opinion on the situation is irrelevant, where I believe it was entirely at your discretion outside of the rules that a public announcement was made regarding GM decisions enacted upon players/accounts/guilds. It seems that your opinion is quite relevant.

I think the answer is we regrettably have to say GMs did not monitor the kills after a bug (obvious after looking at logs) was posted. Unfortunate, but the case. Further we have to, as a community, understand that if a GM does not witness it, screen shots are irrelevant after we were told they would be. Okay, and moving on..

And in summary, the rule is if a GM does not witness, it is permitted despite contrary evidence and can expect that our shot to compete fairly is subject to spot checks (3 kills later for them, once after they report us).

I understand it is no one's "job" to watch every raid mob kill. Fair.

I understand if it's not witnessed (with great hesitation saying so because of the overwhelming evidence offered and considering our source of obtaining the exploit) that no action will be taken.

Where you lose me though, is can I really expect that on an off night if you see a log of me pulling Nagafen and only a mage and a druid killing it, that no action will be taken against me if a GM is not present?

A yes or no answer is the last nail in the coffin for many of us on that last point.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are asking for my personal opinion than I can oblige. I absolutely do not think the first kills were legitimate.

The keyword here is that it is my opinion.. my opinion alone does not give me what is necessary to take action on, which is a completely different situation. Just like a Judge may have an opinion about someone, may even talk down to them in court and say they were in the wrong, but in the end they ultimately have to prove without a doubt they were guilty to convict them.

You look at an encounter log like that and say, there's no way they could have killed nagafen with the number of players and the gear and char levels.. I look at it and consider the same thing and it pains me that I wasn't there to see it so that I could have the ammunition I would need to take action on it.

Rogean, can you answer Nirgon's post instead of avoiding it?