Need help deciding what to play

[Caridry]

Originally Posted by Vondra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We won't be getting Luclin, when people discuss classes here we discuss them in the context of p99. Things outside the scope of the servers progression just aren't really relevant.

So lets discuss within relevance, with a bard twisting the {haste, atk, str, ds}, and multiple dot songs, the attack speed is unmatched, and the raw output of all of that combined, other than rogue backstab, is also unmatched, it was all the way up until luclin. A good, smart, bard should not be out damaged by another melee. Now granted that bard has other shit to do, he should not be concerning all of his efforts towards this because that is not the role, but if its needed it can happen.

[Vondra]

Originally Posted by Caridry [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So lets discuss within relevance, with a bard twisting the {haste, atk, str, ds}, and multiple dot songs, the attack speed is unmatched, and the raw output of all of that combined, other than rogue backstab, is also unmatched, it was all the way up until luclin. A good, smart, bard should not be out damaged by another melee. Now granted that bard has other shit to do, he should not be concerning all of his efforts towards this because that is not the role, but if its needed it can happen.

The attack speed is matched by any melee wearing a decent haste item buffed with enchanter haste.

The general benefit of the bard buffing songs amplifies the potency of the melee classes that have double attack more than it does the bard itself, just due to the nature of double attack. Thus the "support" moniker. If you're referring to the bard self buffing songs, haste still caps at 100% regardless. As such, as said above wearing a good haste item and getting a haste spell or song buff will put you at or near that cap. Adding +str to self from the song does not compete with double attack either and becomes fairly negligible as gear increases and people cap their str anyway.

That isn't to say that bards can't or shouldn't be doing damage, but they are not top end damage dealers on single targets as parses will show pretty easily.

[Caridry]

Originally Posted by Vondra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The attack speed is matched by any melee wearing a decent haste item buffed with enchanter haste.

The general benefit of the bard buffing songs amplifies the potency of the melee classes that have double attack more than it does the bard itself, just due to the nature of double attack. Thus the "support" moniker. If you're referring to the bard self buffing songs, haste still caps at 100% regardless. As such, as said above wearing a good haste item and getting a haste spell or song buff will put you at or near that cap. Adding +str to self from the song does not compete with double attack either and becomes fairly negligible as gear increases and people cap their str anyway.

That isn't to say that bards can't or shouldn't be doing damage, but they are not top end damage dealers on single targets as parses will show pretty easily.

quite the interesting converstion we have here =), what about the addition of DD's and Dots from the bard? does that not at least bring them close to the standards of double attack?

[Vondra]

Originally Posted by Caridry [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

quite the interesting converstion we have here =), what about the addition of DD's and Dots from the bard? does that not at least bring them close to the standards of double attack?

It helps some but in the end it really just doesn't compete, mainly because double attack continues to scale in effectiveness at a percentage level with the character's general power, rather than simply adding flat numbers as is the case with DDs and DoTs.

The disparity in damage grows bigger and bigger the better players are geared (I'm assuming both the Bard and other melee are better geared here), because of the percentage based increase in power provided by double attack. With raid level gear and weapons the disparity in damage becomes very significant.

Of course, bards have some tricks making them suited to certain situations, and of course a bard could outparse melee in a fight with plenty of AOE targets for them to hit. I'm only referring to situations with two people both standing next to a single mob target beating on it.

[Caridry]

Hmm, maybe my stubborn memory is really just refusing to go pre luclin than. I know i know, this is p99 it will never have luclin, but i do know that bard DPS in luclin once they got double attack, was than just overpowered really...

[Vondra]

Originally Posted by Caridry [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmm, maybe my stubborn memory is really just refusing to go pre luclin than. I know i know, this is p99 it will never have luclin, but i do know that bard DPS in luclin once they got double attack, was than just overpowered really...

It's all good.

It's also a lot easier to see the potential power of classes in classic at this point, since we're working largely with a player base familiar with what to do, when to do it, where to get the gear, along with being better at getting said gear. We know because the game is over 12 years old now and we have our past experiences along with the compilation of information from others making nothing a mystery.

In live during classic and kunark the average player base was simply not geared as well as the average player base here. Back then you had a core group of people toting the good stuff. Here half of your raid is. Then it is amplified even more by the fact that content comes out slower here giving people more time to farm the good drops to boot.

[Autotune]

you can thank WoW mainly because with it came min/maxing classes based on gear/skills/playstyle.

Idk how most people play on the server, i refuse to group with most of them. However, the best groups i've been in have never had a dps happy bard. The bard does dmg, but he doesn't focus on trying to be #1. He supports, increases the efficiency of the entire group and shit gets done better/faster.

i really don't care how you play a bard tho, I hardly ever group.

[Caridry]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you can thank WoW mainly because with it came min/maxing classes based on gear/skills/playstyle.

Idk how most people play on the server, i refuse to group with most of them. However, the best groups i've been in have never had a dps happy bard. The bard does dmg, but he doesn't focus on trying to be #1. He supports, increases the efficiency of the entire group and shit gets done better/faster.

i really don't care how you play a bard tho, I hardly ever group.

oh i wasnt saying that was going to be my role, i love the multi support role of a bard between mez, regens, and group haste/ds... i chose enchanter for about a day, and realized my 3rd kid is going to be born in less than 3 weeks, and i dont have time for leveling so i chose bard because of the mez support role primarily... I was just simply saying that damage is a tool that can also be used well for them -if needed- =)

[funhorroryes]

why do people make recomendation class threads.

choose what you want ffs

[Caridry]

Originally Posted by funhorroryes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why do people make recomendation class threads.

choose what you want ffs

some people need a more serverwide perspective as to what is most needed in groups, clarifying leveling woes, ups and downs of certain class's etc. for some it isnt just that simple =)