Item recharging is an exploit of game mechanics

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Speculation.



You're right. Also:

Moss-covered twig in the primary hand - addressed back in the day, within several months after enough entered the game.

Binding in firepots - addressed back in the day, within two weeks.

Item recharging - not addressed for YEARS when the simple fix was to make the buyback costs billions of platinum, until presumably rechargeable items entering the game that could be recharged in this fashion in later expansions were truly OP, THEN addressed.

Follow the classic timeline, unless it's an exploit. No one here has proven rechargeable items is an exploit -- it is just people's opinions. It was an acceptable mechanic in classic. You don't think Verant had logs as to what was going on with every transaction on every vendor in the game? Pretty sure they knew what was going down. In fact, it was probably a Verant developer who knew how the data structures worked that was the first one to teach everyone in his play guild how to recharge items.

gms helped people recharge their items with vendors in botb, for what it's worth. if it were an exploit it would definitely not be something gms would assist you with.

[skorge]

hehe can't wait for the pvp server...item recharging = winning there; everyone knows about it now; well see how much of a rant this topic will really create then, and oh yea, if it gets nerfed there (red), its gotta get nerfed here (blue)

[guineapig]

Take your arguments about word usage to a private forum and let's keep this topic on topic.

[Nuggie]

Ok, to recap:

Brink hates recharging. can't provide evidence of anyone doing it in a way that breaks the game(other than hoop, which is fixed). He only state his opinions on what *could* happen.

Samoht started off the thread by giving helpful tips on how to make a cohesive argument in such a way that might show devs the need to make a change. He insisted it isn't worth dev time currently.

They went back and forth for about 15 pages with the same stuff.

End recap.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Item recharging - not addressed for YEARS when the simple fix was to make the buyback costs billions of platinum, until presumably rechargeable items entering the game that could be recharged in this fashion in later expansions were truly OP, THEN addressed.

Everyone is jumping on me for assuming things, but many of you are coming back saying it was simple to fix and they just didnt do it, yet you have no proof in that direction either.


Nobody really knows what happened behind closed doors at VI or SoE. Its going to be extremely hard to find any documentation either way. All parties here are speculatiing.

For all we know, they truely didnt have a fix untill october 2003. And the reason for not maxing the recharge cost could have been many things, maybe they decided to make it a temporary plat sync, using one bug to cancel out other bugs ( that procuded too much plat ). Until they found said fix.

We could speculate forever as we most likely will never get any real facts about it.


What , in my opinion should be obvious, is that the mechanic itself was not put in intentionally. Its a bug, ite gives players the ability to do things in a manner they did not intend. Again my opinon, which I feel anyone with an open mind should see. It doesnt have to be game breaking to be wrong. I think ive said all this before. Suppose some are just not reading, or are and ignoring half of it.

[Nirgon]

First when an item is sold to a vendor, there has to be code to compare it to the list of current items and update the quantity. When the two items match, check if item has charges. If it is an item with charges, and the amount of charges do not match, add it to the vendor separately. Hell just do it for the hoop if it's such a big deal. I'm just here to say life taps need to be fixed.

Create spell Drain Spirit (different spell ID, same name) put your resist mod on it, assign to hoop, revert changes to life taps. Dones. Necro and SK are fixed/classic/not further gimped on raids.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone is jumping on me for assuming things, but many of you are coming back saying it was simple to fix and they just didnt do it, yet you have no proof in that direction either.

We do have a time frame of four years where recharging was available, though, so strike through the they just didnt do it part because they just didn't do it for four years. That's proof. Maybe they didn't think of the database fix immediately or maybe it took a lot of back end coding to update, either way, it's not my place to speculate.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody really knows what happened behind closed doors at VI or SoE. Its going to be extremely hard to find any documentation either way.

It's funny how this argument suits you when you want it to, but then you say things like this:

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What , in my opinion should be obvious, is that the mechanic itself was not put in intentionally. Its a bug, ite gives players the ability to do things in a manner they did not intend. Again my opinon, which I feel anyone with an open mind should see. It doesnt have to be game breaking to be wrong. I think ive said all this before. Suppose some are just not reading, or are and ignoring half of it.

Please allow me to quote you on this:

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody really knows what happened behind closed doors at VI or SoE.

Moving on:

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All parties here are speculatiing.

No, you're the only one speculating. I've refused more than once to do so, and then name calling ensues until I do.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For all we know, they truely didnt have a fix untill october 2003.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the reason for not maxing the recharge cost could have been many things, maybe they decided to make it a temporary plat sync, using one bug to cancel out other bugs ( that procuded too much plat ). Until they found said fix.

They didn't do that, though. They did it for items that were deemed OP to be recharged, and didn't change anything else, unless you have proof of them changing the buyback amount on everything with charges, but that will be nearly impossible to prove.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We could speculate forever as we most likely will never get any real facts about it.

Well then we should stop debating it. Nobody has any real facts about why item recharging should be disabled. We do have facts that it was classic, though, and this is a classic server.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First when an item is sold to a vendor, there has to be code to compare it to the list of current items and update the quantity. When the two items match, check if item has charges. If it is an item with charges, and the amount of charges do not match, add it to the vendor separately. Hell just do it for the hoop if it's such a big deal. I'm just here to say life taps need to be fixed.

It's easier than that, though. Check items, check charges, vender separately. Too much unnecessary code. If the items have different database IDs for each amount of charges, it becomes no different from selling large patchwork gloves and small patchwork gloves. Six dose hoop would have the same name but different DBID from zero dose hoop, and the vender would realize it would be listed separately with no additional checks required.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Create spell Drain Spirit (different spell ID, same name) put your resist mod on it, assign to hoop, revert changes to life taps. Dones. Necro and SK are fixed/classic/not further gimped on raids.

I thought this was about recharging? Clearly off-topic and has no place in this discussion.

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ite gives players the ability to do things in a manner they did not intend.

Ite ite ite


Also, this case has been brought up before regarding Feign Death. FD was put in the game to cancel aggro in order to prevent yourself from otherwise being killed. The whole concept of using FD to split and tag mobs (to do stuff like trivialize entire mob encounters) can be considered an exploit of game mechanics.

Doing something other than the devs originally intended isn't necessarily wrong.

Also get over it.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought this was about recharging? Clearly off-topic and has no place in this discussion.

Clearly related to a proposed solution for the current situation. That high horse is riding pretty low for you in this thread sir. Maybe I should stick to blowing smoke.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

gms helped people recharge their items with vendors in botb, for what it's worth. if it were an exploit it would definitely not be something gms would assist you with.

Ive seen this posted twice. It might have happened, not seeing anything backing it however. Even if they did tho, we dont know why that descison would have been made. It could have possibally been a last minute decision attempting to make each fight equal. Insta click charges was a big deal in that tourney. They nerfed the soulfire click after it, and a lot of others things that came to their attention that didnt seem right.