How EQ PvP really was - No bullshit guide

[tmoneynegro]

Originally Posted by lindz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sullon Zek release during Velious. Velious is not relevant to this server at this point in time. You opinions on pvp during Velious era is not going to be useful to this server at this time.

Newsflash: It's the same resist system for Classic through Velious, it wasn't changed till Luclin. There's no difference in them when you're talking about how spell resists/mechanics worked which is 99% of the original post.

You also have a female username, do we really wanna go there. I can't recall once where someone was like "OMG THERE'S A GIRL IN CRUSHBONE/KARNORS/SEBILLIS, EVERYONE RUN FOR YOUR LIVES".

[lindz]

Heaven forbid a female play MMOs.

Seriously?

[tmoneynegro]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wehrmacht, considering you started by saying that bard dots didn't have a resist debuff component (which they always have) and that fungi tunic could out-regen a bard dot (which isn't true), it's pretty much impossible to trust your account of how classic was. Especially when your version of classic has occlusion of sound, t-staffs and fungi tunics in it.

Giegue I don't give a shit about your bard nitpicking over stupid things. I don't know the full 1999-2011 history of bard spells. All I know is that their damage chants didn't land worth a damn when they attacked me so I wasn't very worried when I saw them.

If they actually were a good PvP class, they would have been everywhere, but in reality, they were probably the least popular PvP class in all of EQ classic through Velious. There's no point in discussing level 10 PvP when people have 0 resists.

Originally Posted by lindz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heaven forbid a female play MMOs.

Seriously?

I can only think of one female that was a semi-factor in the entire history of EQ PvP, some girl named Hamadryad in <Darkenbane>. So basically 0.001% of the population. Most of that relevance was derived from posting pictures of herself on msg boards. How is it not a valid point lol.

[Cast]

wait this guy is wehrmacht?

cmon dude lol... for fuck sakes.

only need mippo and lumie in this thread for the trifecta now

[Mardur]

Originally Posted by Cast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

only need mippo and lumie in this thread for the trifecta now

Please make it happen. Can't wait to see them make an appearance on Red99.

[Softcore PK]

Misinformation, egomania, terrible grammar/spelling, name calling, misplaced anger and even sexism! This thread has it all!

XD

[lindz]

Wow guy, just wow....

[Lazortag]

No one knows for sure why Wehrmacht hates minorities so much, but I just assumed he didn't get into college and blamed it on affirmative action. This explanation is particularly elegant because it both explains why he's so uneducated and why he discriminates against minorities.

[tmoneynegro]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and even sexism!

Casual sexism on PvP server??? Surely this can't be true.

[SearyxTZ]

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I keep seeing blue server people asking what class to play then lots of responses by TZVZ people that never even played EQ live or just random noobs in general so here's the legit story on classes.

Warriors, monks, rangers, paladins, and shadowknights: If we're talking about well geared, max level people of similar skill, all are balanced relatively decent to one another and the fight can go either way. These 5 classes are basically the #1 PvP classes you can play if well geared. If you see someone claim that any of these classes is "not good" for solo PvP, they are a dumb ass plain and simple or played TZVZ but not EQ live.

Rogue: Even if you're the best player on earth, you probably won't be able to kill a B+ player from the above category if equally geared and standing outside. If you're a small race and attacking ogres and trolls inside a dungeon like Guk, you can do pretty good. As for casters, they will probably kill you some way or another until 55+ with a huge piercer then most will avoid ever stopping to try and channel a cast while you melee them. Hide is also decent till other melees have see invis items.

Druid: The real strength in this class isn't 1vs1 dueling since a good player that's well prepared will dispel your dots. It's sneaking up on people and dropping multiple dots on them that go behind all their other buffs while they're xping then unloading nukes. This usually results in death as they try to run to zone line and is pretty easy to do since you get track. Can also debuff your fire nuke resists by casting Ice (don't remember what expansion it's from). This is more of a jackass ganking class than anything.

Mage: The king of jackass idiot classes. Send pet then run away. If you manage to kill someone, nobody cares since you didn't actually do anything. Resist rates for nukes is extremely high unless you have mala + the server has SZ 50% debuff bonus.

Shaman: This is the most uncertain class of them all in terms of power. It depends how common cure poison potions are and also how many levels of poison each cast removes. I'm 99% sure that dots with an initial DD component had a double resist check so if you're casting Ebolt on someone with only 50 poison resist, the resist rate will still be decent but it won't be the grand slam spell it appears to be. Shouldn't have much problem landing dots during kunark with malo + unresistable disease debuff. The class will either be mediocre or extremely overpowered for 1vs1 depending on availability of poison/disease potions and their effectiveness as I said. There was no free market for these potions on SZ when it came out, you only really got them if you were in a guild with a shaman that made them (wasn't very many).

Bard: I don't remember any of their spells landing on me classic through Velious. There weren't many bards on EQ live in general though. One thing they can do is dispel all your buffs, use a tash procing weapon, then use occlusion of sound unresistable MR/FR/CR debuff which would be something like 60-70 MR debuff if the server uses Sullon Zek 50% debuff bonus. With that much MR debuffed, you can probably land snare and dot on even well geared melees. If you combine that with a Malo from a shaman or mage, someone would be really screwed. So for group PvP, besides just being a speed bot, they have some annoying tricks. If you're solo, you probably won't kill anyone as a bard and mostly just wander around annoying people, nobody will kill you either though probably.

Cleric: Basically a healing only class. Two DA's so it's really hard to die. Stuns and blinds never land on well geared people. If you try nuking someone with over 100MR, you'll be lucky to do 25-50% of their HP after blowing your entire mana bar.

Enchanter: Your nuke has a double resist check due to having a stun component so it's the hardest to land PvP nuke. I think level 57 tash debuffs magic resist by 60 or so if server has SZ 50% debuff bonus so that evens it out a bit. You do get an unresistable mez at 59 so mezzing is always possible, especially if there's no crimson potions on server. The basic endgame routine for this class is pillage other casters, rapture, tash, sieve all their mana, then attempt to nuke them to death. I think you run out of mana trying to kill most real melees. If there are no crimson pots and server has 50% SZ debuff bonus, having this class duo with a malo casting shaman or mage will be pretty deadly. Otherwise they aren't very strong 1vs1 endgame.

Wizard: With normal EQ resists, this class starts off very powerful then becomes pretty poor at 50 against people with good equipment. Once Kunark opens, it becomes powerful once again due to lures. You also get levitate and shadowstep so you just levitate up then bomb people from above while they can't hit you outside or spam shadowstep then nuke.

Necro: Same pluses and minuses with poison dots as shaman. Same pluses and minuses as druid with other dots. While outside you either spam shadowstep then dot or lifetap or you use levitate and bomb people from above.


Summary: All melees are good for PvP using normal EQ live resists. Shamans, druids, necros, and wizards (lures) are also good. The only classes that really get shafted are clerics, mages, and enchanters that try to solo. If the server uses Sullon Zek 50% debuff bonus, mage power should be "ok" after getting malo at 60 though.

This post actually wouldn't be that bad if not for that first paragraph.

Warriors, monks, and hybrid melee are all relatively balanced and equal?


Not so much, dude. Rangers - really? The #1 PvP class when well geared? Classic through Velious, they are among the worst. None of their spells land, their bow damage sucked till Luclin, they have virtually no 2H weapon options in classic, with their best 1h iirc being the bone claw thing from Fear (most used yaks). They have about 60% of the HPs of an ogre warrior, 300 less AC, and are no better offensively.

And SK's are generally above the rest.


And Warriors/Monks are bad in outdoors solo PvP. This is coming from someone who played a Monk during live and spent hundreds of hours PvP'ing in Dreadlands or Lake solo. You don't have any reliable way of slowing people down, so yes - they do suck solo (outdoors). A Bard can kite you to death. Casters have all the room they need in outdoor zones, can exploit the environment bugs (ghosting), shadowstep a mile away and then tag you with a nuke before you even get back in range, etc. Pet classes just sic Jabober on you, run a few circles around a hill to ghost and shake you, and call it a day. I can't remember if FD removes targeting or not, but Warriors are definitely fucked there. These are just scenarios off the top of my head.