Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[Softcore PK]

Item loot will scare too many people away imo. We need to do all we can to steal the bluebies away from Blue99, so we can have enough people to play with :/

[genrah]

Sounds like most of blue is stayin blue.

Plus you would draw in a TON of folks looking for just this sort of unique server (item loot) that are not even playing eq right now.

I honestly think the pop would be more with item loot than without.

-g

[Yukahwa]

The low quality low level PVP that 8 level limit brings to the table, with or without item loot will result in very few bluebies sticking with this server.

[Sorath]

pvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player died.pvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player died.pvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player died.pvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player died.pvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player died.pvp happened. a player diedpvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player died.. pvp happened. a player died.pvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player dpvp happened. a player died. pvp pvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player died.happened. a player died.ied.pvp happened. a player died. pvp happened. a player died.

[Softcore PK]

I think in many ways, item loot would discourage pvp. On RZ, you saw people bagging items or doing all they could to gate instead of fighting back. When they did fight back, they were usually in planar gear with all drop items bagged. If you go the other way, and only allow stuff that isn't worn to be looted, people will just stop carrying that stuff around. You'll see a lot less clicky items being used, and in some ways this would gimp melee classes. If they want to use bracer of the hidden for their see invis (and a clicky), they would have to keep it equipped all of the time or risk losing it.

Who are these hordes of people that some of you are saying will come to Red99 if item loot is enabled? I don't understand it at all; even players on RZ seemed to hate it (doing all the could to prevent it from happening).

If item loot ever goes in, it of course wouldn't stop me from playing. It would, however, gimp my characters as I would not often be willing to risk my stuff. I've never been remotely rich in EQ, and to lose any piece of equipment is a HUGE blow to me. The problem with item loot, I feel, is that the uber rich powergamers are actually risking less than players such as myself. Sure, they still risk losing the same kinds of items, but losing a resist ring is a much bigger deal for someone who doesn't have 100kpp banked.

[genrah]

I find it hard to convince the need for item loot with someone named softcore pk....but here goes.

There is a desire for such a hardcore ruleset out there, and people simply dont play EQ or many MMOS today because they are geared toward carebears.

Take a few moments to scour the forums over at darkenbane.com or lucidvision.org and you will find tons of posts asking for the good old days.

DB and LV were two of the more well know pk guilds back in the early Rallos Zek days.

I personally was never in a large guild, as it meant less targets for me to pvp with. But running solo or with a small gank squad of friends I managed to kill quite a few people, nab a lot of items, and have a hell of a time doing so.

Selling stolen goods also created a black market on the server.

As a result of solid pk guilds and pk system the anti pk movement came to light. The anti pk movement had some really strong guilds and just seeing the dynamic that this created is something that has never been recreated to this day in an mmo. At the root of this was item loot.

Item loot is what draws people to the concept.. just look at where Rallos went after LDON came out and everything went no drop with augments.

Item loot was a true death penalty. You felt like someone stole $200 from you if that robe you spent 24 hours camping was ganked. The thrill of getting killed as well as killing for loot really added to this dynamic.

People think twice before attacking with good gear on, and people think twice about wearing gear out due to being attacked. Far better concept than everything is no drop = little risk/reward.

-g

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by genrah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find it hard to convince the need for item loot with someone named softcore pk....but here goes.

There is a desire for such a hardcore ruleset out there, and people simply dont play EQ or many MMOS today because they are geared toward carebears.

Take a few moments to scour the forums over at darkenbane.com or lucidvision.org and you will find tons of posts asking for the good old days.

DB and LV were two of the more well know pk guilds back in the early Rallos Zek days.

I personally was never in a large guild, as it meant less targets for me to pvp with. But running solo or with a small gank squad of friends I managed to kill quite a few people, nab a lot of items, and have a hell of a time doing so.

Selling stolen goods also created a black market on the server.

As a result of solid pk guilds and pk system the anti pk movement came to light. The anti pk movement had some really strong guilds and just seeing the dynamic that this created is something that has never been recreated to this day in an mmo. At the root of this was item loot.

Item loot is what draws people to the concept.. just look at where Rallos went after LDON came out and everything went no drop with augments.

Item loot was a true death penalty. You felt like someone stole $200 from you if that robe you spent 24 hours camping was ganked. The thrill of getting killed as well as killing for loot really added to this dynamic.

People think twice before attacking with good gear on, and people think twice about wearing gear out due to being attacked. Far better concept than everything is no drop = little risk/reward.

-g

I'm not all that softcore, I leveled to above 50 as an elf purist on VZ.. and I made sure to attack the KoS teams.

This is a very good argument for item loot! Trust me, I get it. Harsh penalties that brought about an entire movement in an effort to stamp out heinous crimes is wonderful, and a perfect example of what a MMO community is capable of being. To me, these server politics brought about by pvp are what make EQ so great.. and absence of them is why blue EQ isn't worth playing. My first pvp server was RZ, and although I didn't stay there long I followed the politics some because the (at first) confusing anti-pk playstyle was so intriguing.

However. I still feel that item loot, on a server such as this, is a bad idea. And though it being a system that rewards powergamers over casuals and such is a decent argument, the real issue is with player population. It's great that you know of two guilds that would like to play here if item loot were introduced, but two guilds does not make a server. I feel that if Red99 is to survive, we need to do all we can to attract as many different types of people as possible. Since most of the EQ community has always been blue, this means Red99 needs to give these blue players some sort of reason to play here. And I think many of them, especially at this stage in their EQ lives, are ready for a new challenge. PvP being that challenge. But if we include item loot, I think we really would be alienating these prospective new players more than you realize. Losing a good item, as you said, is a serious blow to a player. Try to imagine how an average blue player would feel about item loot. It would turn them off of us.

[genrah]

That's the point. I don't think we should cater to blues.. there are enough options for those people out there in the mmo genre as it is.

[Softcore PK]

there are not enough of us. we need some of them, or i fear we'll have nothing at all.

[Bockscar]

need for item loot

There is no need for itemloot. There's a preference for it among some, but that's not at all the same as a need. Especially because those who want it are the minority. I really cannot see why people can consistently try to lobby for something that there are more people against than for, especially considering how it can be all but proven to affect the server negatively. If you try to convince the devs to implement something that you know the majority is against, you're a selfish fucktard. I fully respect those who would like itemloot but recognize that it doesn't have a place on this server. Those who keep posting about how it's a necessary feature whenever the slightest opportunity to mention it arises in order to make it look like there's more people in favor than there actually are? They can eat some dicks. Just like those polls that were solidly against itemloot until a guide asked for input on the ruleset and suddenly twenty accounts with less than 10 posts each all voted for itemloot in the span of like two hours. If you prefer itemloot, the game is still plenty playable without it. If you are against itemloot, having that feature forced upon you is a much greater deterrence than having to play without it when you'd rather play with it. When this server's goal is to appeal to and attract as many players as possible, and to maintain a healthy and relatively positive PvP environment, then trying to push for a feature that the majority is against is just profoundly stupid and basically proves that you consider your personal agenda more important than the success of the server.