Game Mechanics: MELEE PROBLEMS (Mob hit rate, # max hits, etc etc)

[Skeletonya]

Just my 2 copper...

It may not be classic to say, boost some of the classes in Project 1999 to make them generally balanced and playable, but it still the fair thing to do.

I see no reason not to balance them.

1. More class balance will allow more class diversity
2. Class diversity will mean more class specific drops for everyone. ( I.e. if everyone is a caster, theres a ton of competition for caster loot. )
3. Sony should have done it themselves, but were lazy as hell, and clearly didnt care.

[Naerron]

i have a lvl 17 twink warrior, has 750 HP unbuffed, two obsid shards and about 400 AC. here is my 2 cp.

First off, AC does NOTHING. It sucks, even on my 37 mage, i can get destroyed by greens because dodge and AC does nothing. At around lvl 30 i thought i'd go own up CB, oddly enough i send my pet in to kill a lego in TR and the whole room agros me, which is weird as hell. Then my pet gets owned, then i get owned at lvl 30 in crush bone, i blushed so hard all the way back to my corpse. BUt lvl 12ish greens should not be hitting a lvl 30 for max dmg over and over again, or even really hitting him at all. i know there are many emu severs with this problem, also i know that SoA ( Scars of Amerous) has working AC.

Second. I seem to be able to solo yellows and whites fine when im procing a ton and can keep soloing with bind wound, however every once in ahwile a mob will just kick my ass, i will be 100% health and almost die.

THird) while im tanking i notice mobs hitting for max nearly every time, also i notice my warrior hitting for max way more than he should.

[sever]

I tested just how low of a mob will start max hitting and landing frequent attacks on me (50 war/800ac). I started with blackburrow and things were normal there. My combat log was full of their misses/my dodges/parries/ripostes. I then moved to south karana since there's a wide variety there and I thought i'd crack Quillmane. I started with the level 20ish Bull Elephants and they were fine.

I then tried a level 30ish cyclops and he broke the system again. He was green, and hit for 63 every other hit, rarely missing. I figured it was the high str value of giants that did it, and so I moved on to a werewolf. He hit for 40s every other hit, and had incredible accuracy.

While tanks may take enough damage to make the game difficult (meaning you need solid healers to keep the tough camps going) there's still a loop in how well ac scales, and how well you avoid attacks. Adding a number of great gear pieces seems to do next to nothing to your benefit (and in classic, gear gets better very slowly).

My beef? The 49 pets tank better, and charmed enchanter pets tank far better. While you're probably looking at ac/avoidance scaling right now, these 2 should also be looked at, as it eliminates the need for a tank in a lot of current high level areas.

[sever]

I'd also like to add that some high level mobs are hitting for more than they should be. There are allakhazam threads that have mob damage values, for example:

- Imps in Solb by efreeti had a max of 122 (level 48 imp), while currently the the 43 imp hits for 134 and the 48 imp hits for 144

- LGuk:
-- Lord has a max of 125 (allakhazam lists it right on his info page) Currently he's hitting for mid 140s
-- Frenzied/BT Ghouls are supposed to hit for 120s as they did in classic, not the 129-13x now
-- Every ghoul from dar (melee)/kor(wizard) lines on up (39-42 or something), their damage doubles from their Zol cousin (Zol being something like 35-39, hits appropriately for 7x depending on level). Right now, Dar's are hitting for 129-13x and it just goes up. Kor wizards start at 122. That's as much as classic Lord. Boks/Guks/Jins are 13x-14x.
-- I don't know about live side frogs of similar levels, since I heard near King, the mobs ignore walls ><

This is all I've noticed so far. Challenging and exciting it may be, it makes tanks weaker and enchanters stronger (charm).

[stormlord]

Wish I could go back in time and see what it was like on my ranger the first few months, but I just plum do not remember. Darn. I do remember equippping leather helped me to stay alive longer in blackburrow. Old EQ was brutal for soloers. I think that the reason people kited, including rangers, was because mobs must have hit hard, but I just do -not- remember.

Someone here said they're fairly well equipped. Are you equippped in gear that you got, or is it gear you've bought from a higher level? Even then, I wouldn't expect you to do well on your own. Classic EQ wasn't friendly if you weren't in a group except for a couple classes :/ 2 rangers is better than 1 if 1 can't kill it, lol.

Overall, it looks like progression on this server will take a while. It will mean making a lot of alts, lol. Shamans, chanters, clerics, etc.

[guineapig]

Soft Caps
Cloth..........= ~75 worn AC (yes its really that low)
Leather......= ~100 worn AC
Monk..........= ~120 worn AC (if they are under 15 stone wieght)
Chain.........= ~200 worn AC
Plate .........= ~300 worn AC

Has anyone checked to see if maybe the soft caps are screwed up in the code?
That would explain the diminishing returns of AC on tanks being off.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Villert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't believe this hasn't already been brought up, but here goes;

Our hit rate was recently fixed, and this is good, it was done, and done well, we melee classes are grateful for it. Having said this, please read on.

Melee classes are BUGGED. Whether it's our AC, defensive skills, or the mobs' we're fighting and their extremely high hit rates/max damage hits.

I have been speaking with other melee classes, and every one of them agrees, something is not right. The point of this post, is to have this issue recognized, for I have not seen any inclination on these boards, on IRC, or in game from any GMs or developers. I am aware, and appreciate that there is much work to be done, and the developers are simply swamped, but this is a big issue for melee players on the server.

There is a pretty obvious reason that melee classes are so rare on Project 1999, most have rerolled to casting classes - and I don't blame them.

If you are a melee class, or any class who has noticed these issues, and would like something to be done about them, please post your experiences on this thread. This thread IS meant to raise awareness of these issues, but also to lend a helping hand to developers, by narrowing down some of the many bugs we are facing.

We don't want to be any better than we were in classic, we just want to be the SAME as we were in classic.

Please post your thoughts and comments.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention endurance loss - which is a HUGE problem with 2h weapons, and heavier 1h weapons. The endurance penalty for attack speed is massive, and this high amount of endurance loss was definitely not present in classic. Please consider this one of our issues.

I'm not tryin to be offensive or inflammatory, but another reason people might not play melee classes is because they're not great at soloing. On a server this small, as opposed to the thousands that played when eq was launched, you would expect a lot of people to not play warrior/monk/rogue/etc.

In another thread there's a comment about a post someone made a long time ago. In it it's shown that if a warrior and a monk had the same ac, that a warrior would get hit for less damage, but a monk would get hit less yet get hit for max damage (more often because warriors have more damage absorption ac).

Not to discount the notion that there might be a problem. There indeed might be, but that might not be why people don't play melee classes. In other words, even if melee classes were fixed this does not mean people will play them.

[Villert]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not tryin to be offensive or inflammatory, but another reason people might not play melee classes is because they're not great at soloing. On a server this small, as opposed to the thousands that played when eq was launched, you would expect a lot of people to not play warrior/monk/rogue/etc.

Not to discount the notion that there might be a problem. There indeed might be, but that might not be why people don't play melee classes. In other words, even if melee classes were fixed this does not mean people will play them.

O rly?

Mate, have you been reading this thread or what? This forum is chalk full of posts about people quitting or rerolling their melees because they aren't functioning properly - not because they can't solo.

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In other words, even if melee classes were fixed this does not mean people will play them.

I... don't even know how to respond to you here, your comment has nothing to do with, well, anything that we're discussing. There are tons of people who want to play melee, but don't because they're broken.

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In another thread there's a comment about a post someone made a long time ago. In it it's shown that if a warrior and a monk had the same ac, that a warrior would get hit for less damage, but a monk would get hit less yet get hit for max damage (more often because warriors have more damage absorption ac).

What you're talking about is mitigation. On this server, yes, that is the way it's supposed to function. Warriors should get hit more, but for less damage - monks should get hit less but for more damage.

The fact is, that doesn't happen - Both monks and warriors get hit 95% of the time, and for MAX damage.

Monk mitigation wasn't actually nerfed until Luclin, by the way, so if we were being truly classic, mitigation wouldn't make much of a difference. (This was changed due to monks being obviously OPed in Velious). Of course, this server is run on the Titanium client, which is post Luclin, and it goes without saying that the client itself cannot be altered, which means this can't be changed.

I'm also not sure what your point was for this comment, as it doesn't really refer to anything at all.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything with my responses - I'm just tired of the whole, "there's nothing wrong, or personally I don't care if there is" attitude some players have about this.

[SirSpankAlot360]

Yeah, I agree with Villert. I am trying not to pull my hair out when playing my warrior but I seem practically useless in a group. I want to stick with it though because there are way too many casters and I am hoping all the bugs with melee will be fixed soon.

[Somekid123]

Everything in this thread is just people going back and forth, same with ooc in game. Can we get an officials word whether anything is being looked into as a possible fix?