Druid Charm Soloing

[aresprophet]

If you really want to maximize your charm solo efficiency there are 2 things you can do:

-Make your pet deal more damage
-Make your pet take more damage

Fear kiting is counterproductive: you could have 2 mobs killed for the mana and time it takes to kill 1, as long as you can control mob HP. This is easier somewhere like TD raptors or Perma bear pits (my experience is mostly those 2 places) where mobs are close to each other in damage and HP. At lower levels in OT or TT you might need to adjust your style, I quadded pre-Kunark through those levels.

So, a rundown of the best way to maximize your charm soloing exp:

-You want to kill as many mobs as possible in the time it takes for a repop, without using an unsustainable amount of mana. Given the vagaries of charm breaks and resists, this is going to require you to med out a pop on some cycles. This is OK as long as you aren't doing it too often (once every 3-4 cycles tops). Just try to never sit at full mana unless your pet is buffed and killing something.

-If you use Savage Spirit and Shield of Thorns you should be able to buff a pet just enough to have it kill 2 identical mobs (in the case of TD, buff a Vicious and use it against regular Raptors) with under 5% left at the end. Gauge the two mobs' HP as the fight progresses and use ES Vambs or a Lumi Staff to get the target mob lower if necessary due to randomness of melee; you want the first mob to die when your pet is between 50% and 55%. Keep Ensnare on your charmed pet as a safety (lets you med more and run around less, pays for itself) and pull targets to it using Flame Lick or Glamour of Tunare, then root when the target is close. That's all you should need to get a kill.

-Use Hide, a Gazughi Ring (if you're rich) or Camo to break charm when your pet falls below 5%. If you root the target mob (which you should) you can use the Pet Back button to get it out of range just before it dies; judicious use of the Pet Guard and Pet Back button can also let the target mob hurt your pet a little more if it's going to survive with >10% hp when the target dies. Use ES Vambs or Lumi to finish off the target and the pet. You can usually begin your next pull as the ES Vambs dot is finishing off the previous mobs, speeding up your overall killing. I keep Breath of Ro up to finish off pets that survive with >10%, it's more effective than having a hasted mob take a chunk out of the next mob you charm.

-In situations where a 2v1 is not possible you can use a charmed pet 1v1 without Savage Spirit or Thorns and med back a little mana, but since this lowers the overall DPS being done by both mobs you want to avoid it. There are a few pulls in Perma you can't help but do 1v1 due to pathing bugs, and if you're sharing raptors you may have to do a 1v1 now and then.

-You could use the dagger method mentioned above to push DPS higher but I can't imagine doing that for any sustainable amount of time before it drove me crazy. It might let you take a single buffed pet through 3 mobs in one go, though.

This charm-tank method is far more efficient than charm-fear kiting because it effectively increases the DPS you do by 50%, allowing you to fit more kills into a pop cycle. Once you have the method down you can clear 9 pops on the big raptor isle in the ~15 minutes it takes for one to repop and die again. Prior to the big nerf to charm breaks a few months ago I was only getting 6 per cycle tops using fear and a single buffed Vicious pet.

[Kevlar]

Originally Posted by aresprophet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-You could use the dagger method mentioned above to push DPS higher but I can't imagine doing that for any sustainable amount of time before it drove me crazy. It might let you take a single buffed pet through 3 mobs in one go, though.

This charm-tank method is far more efficient than charm-fear kiting because it effectively increases the DPS you do by 50%, allowing you to fit more kills into a pop cycle. Once you have the method down you can clear 9 pops on the big raptor isle in the ~15 minutes it takes for one to repop and die again. Prior to the big nerf to charm breaks a few months ago I was only getting 6 per cycle tops using fear and a single buffed Vicious pet.

Fear kite is way faster. Not even close, if there are a lot of animal mobs around. A charmed, 70% hasted, dual dagger wielding tiger or raptor will mow down 10 mobs before the charm breaks easy, he kills feared mobs in litterally seconds. And even with the odd break you only lose him for a couple seconds. Any caster who isn't an idiot doesn't need root to med, I never miss a med tick while kiting. It ain't hard to count to 5 mississippi.

[aresprophet]

Originally Posted by Kevlar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fear kite is way faster. Not even close, if there are a lot of animal mobs around. A charmed, 70% hasted, dual dagger wielding tiger or raptor will mow down 10 mobs before the charm breaks easy, he kills feared mobs in litterally seconds. And even with the odd break you only lose him for a couple seconds. Any caster who isn't an idiot doesn't need root to med, I never miss a med tick while kiting. It ain't hard to count to 5 mississippi.

TD raptors have up to 4k hp (Vicious even more), it takes far, far longer for them to die using fear. I can sustainably kill a lot more mobs in a cycle letting the pet tank than by fearing. I did levels 50 through 55 at raptors and tried both methods extensively. Charm durations being what they are, it doesn't work very well to rely on the same mob for too long.

Originally Posted by M.Bison

and wtf is with all this talk about Invis to animal rings...youre a druid use hide, its free and instant.

And it doesn't work every time. I use Hide myself but I could see how the invis ring would make life easier, you can go 8-9 clicks in a row and not break charm some times. If 10k is nothing to you I'd recommend the ring.

[aresprophet]

Just to be clear, even pre-nerf when charm was outlasting the 14 minute duration of Ensnare on most casts I was still killing Raptors slower by fear-kiting them than by having the pet tank. I spent most of that charm duration sitting on my ass at full mana wishing I could do something other than cast Breath of Ro every so often to speed things up. Utilizing twice the mana to get a 50% increase in DPS, I can kill far more mobs in the same period of time without having to take breaks; my "med break" consists of leaving up 3 mobs I would have otherwise killed in one cycle out of 4 or 5.

[Zapatos]

The amount of bad information in this thread is making me cringe...

I'll do this assuming you're at raptors:

First. Forget charisma. That does nothing for you druids, read the patch notes.

Letting your pet tank? That's a huge waste of mana with all the thorns, heals, re-charms you have to do with each pet.. especially a waste if you're giving your raptor weapons.. and seriously, rusty daggers? Have some dignity, go get yourself stun whips!

To the comment about never snaring your pet? Terrible! Keep your pet esnared, or you certaintly won't be able to re-charm without being wrecked by your full run speed, hasted, stunning, w/e pet. Re-ensare (and glamour if you have it) after every time charm breaks.

Your clicky snare is awesome for pulling your next raptor.. do it. That, a cast of your level 1 nuke, and panick animal is all you need..when fear wears of, thats only 10 more mana, not a big deal... and clicking your ES vams is otherwise just a waste of a big cast bar for damage your pet can do for free in a few seconds, take the time to med. You'll need that mana when you find charm breaking randomly and often. If you have extra mana, awesome, throw in a dot if you want, but otherwise focus on your pet.

[aresprophet]

Originally Posted by Zapatos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Letting your pet tank? That's a huge waste of mana with all the thorns, heals, re-charms you have to do with each pet.. especially a waste if you're giving your raptor weapons.. and seriously, rusty daggers? Have some dignity, go get yourself stun whips!

It's obvious you didn't read my post on how to make your pet tank efficiently. You never heal it.

Shield of Thorns does 24 damage every hit; killing 2 mobs with one hasted/DSed pet, it gets hit about 70 times total on average. 1700ish damage for 120 mana? Yes please. Add your haste spell and you're spending as much mana as you would on another charm (220) in order to make your pet kill twice as fast. As long as you can med enough to make up the mana you're going to kill more mobs in the same amount of time.

Fear kiting is slower than letting your pet take the damage and then killing it. Period.

[Zapatos]

Originally Posted by aresprophet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As long as you can med enough to make up the mana you're going to kill more mobs in the same amount of time.

Of course a pet with thorns will kill a mob faster, but it's all about how your mana holds up over the long run. You can nuke your mob down even faster, but then that would be incredibly inefficient. For raptors specifically, you can fear kite and keep the entire island you're on clear. I've done it, and I've seen other Druids do it, with even a few claiming they could clear both isles (though I wasn't to willing to back off to see it in action [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The bottom line is charm, while awesome, can be incredibly unreliable. You'll occasionally get breaks barely a minute apart, and for that you'll have to play as efficient as you can to keep the exp flowing over the long run.

[Kevlar]

Originally Posted by Zapatos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To the comment about never snaring your pet? Terrible! Keep your pet esnared, or you certaintly won't be able to re-charm without being wrecked by your full run speed, hasted, stunning, w/e pet. Re-ensare (and glamour if you have it) after every time charm breaks.

The problem with snaring your pet is it makes aggro kiting impossibe. I have yet to find a mob that I can't get enough distance from to get off a grasping root unmolested. Plenty of time to recharm, then he is back to full speed in a minute or less.

If all you are doing is fear kiting snare will work, but for more difficult zones where there are lots of non-animals to deal with, aggro kiting is the way to go. Ensnare 4 or 5 victims and let your pet rape them from behind.

Pet tanking is a lot slower in the long run. Yes, you are going to kill two mobs, but if you just keep a single pet and aggro or fear kite your mana will never run dry. I waste about 500 mana on charm, haste, and chloro. Plus 4pp per pet for daggers. Then I don't use any more mana for 10-20 mins depending on how nice of a pet I have.

Your pet dps goes up possible 100 percent from dual wield, and an additional 70 pct from haste. Then you add in the fact that fear or aggro kiting takes away all of the target's mitigation, which is fairly significant since most of these mobs are high level warriors/tanks.

[Aksiom2k]

Legas' Guide to Druid Charming in OT

I just dinged 39 on my druid in OT where I charm kite soloed from 29-39. It was easy and it sometimes felt absurd that I could kill red con tigers so easily.

Here was the basic run down:

a)I bound in OT just inside the SF ramp.

b)I ported to EC, bought C2, Wis buff, and CHA (i know you're all saying it doesn't help at all but it's not hurting either) from a friendly enchanter.

c)Gated back to OT

1) Ran out west past the watering hole invis and searched on track for a light blue con rhino. Charm on LB rhinos holds alot better than dark blue cons.

2) Ran with my new pet back to the columns just south of SF zone and parked him there.

3)Ran out with flame lick loaded and tagged something that was even con or higher and brought it back to my pet.

4) Snared the inc mob and sicked the pet on him. Snare casting range and pet attack range seem to be very close so if you queue up your pet attack command on the inc target you will know right when to cast snare if you are watching your pet run out to engage.

5) Feared the mob. At first I was using the 10m fear animal spell because it was so efficient but later upgraded to the 30m fear because it lasts so much longer.

6) Dotted mob with highest rank of Stinging Swarm line that I had.

7) Sit, med, redot when needed.

8) Rinse and Repeat.

Notes:

a,b, and c are optional. If there is no c2 to be had, I would invite an LFG monk, rouge, mage, or necro to join me.

Neither snare nor fear land every cast, especially if you are pulling things that are yellow and red con. Be ready to run and recast. Fear only has the shared global cooldown with other spells but snares recast is a bit longer. When in doubt fear, then snare.

Never snared my pet and only buffed him with str and feral spirit.

Because of their duration, I always buffed myself with personal AC/Dmg Shield (spikecoat) and wolf form. Kept regen on myself as well but I felt as though other buffs were superfluous.

Spells Gems I had up

1) Nuke (Usually Ignite)
2) Heal or Regen (Gheal or Regeneration)
3) Creeping Crud -> Drones of Doom
4) Flame Lick
5) Animal Fear
6) Animal Charm
7) Snare (or Ensnare)
8) Root (Enveloping Roots)

I only ever unmemmed the 2nd or 4th spell slots for switching in buffs. In general, I like to keep spells up that will help me get out of trouble if something goes amiss.

In 10 levels soloing in this manner I only died once because I got cocky and thought I could AFK with charmed pet to make some pizza. I only had to have that lesson once. If you need to AFK, drop the pet, zone and med till you can come back.

Hope this helps someone. PST Legas in game if you have any questions.

*edit - Changed name of post

[aresprophet]

Now that I think about it I'm not sure that non-humanoid mobs should even be able to dual wield when given weapons. I'll have to research that.

Originally Posted by Kevlar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet tanking is a lot slower in the long run. Yes, you are going to kill two mobs, but if you just keep a single pet and aggro or fear kite your mana will never run dry. I waste about 500 mana on charm, haste, and chloro. Plus 4pp per pet for daggers. Then I don't use any more mana for 10-20 mins depending on how nice of a pet I have.

Do you see the major flaws here?

You're sitting at full mana, doing nothing to speed up your killing process. Utilizing more mana to kill more mobs = more exp. Who cares if you're less efficient? You only need to be just efficient enough. Too much efficiency is time wasted. So I use 1000 mana instead of 500 over the same period, and in return I get 3 kills instead of 2. Both of us are using less mana than we're medding back, but the difference is that I'm getting more exp than you are. I also can stay in the same place for hours without having to find a vendor to buy daggers. Travel time to and from your killing spot that could be spent killing more mobs is not more efficient. Also I realized you're using Chloroplast, which I don't have to waste 200 mana on.

Your pet dps goes up possible 100 percent from dual wield, and an additional 70 pct from haste. Then you add in the fact that fear or aggro kiting takes away all of the target's mitigation, which is fairly significant since most of these mobs are high level warriors/tanks.

Kiting also takes away all of the target's damage, which is fairly significant since mobs hit much harder than warriors of their level.

Here's the math on why charm-tanking works:

Let's say you have a mob that has 1000 hp and hits for 50 every 2.5 seconds, doing 20 DPS (quasi-realistic figures considering misses, mitigated hits, etc.). You charm this mob, give it dual wield for a 40% damage increase (which is about what mage and necro pets get from dual-wielding, if charmed pets are getting more that's a bug), haste it for 70%, and now it's doing roughly 2.5x that damage for 50 DPS.

With my method, put haste on the pet so it's doing 34 DPS and pit it against another mob doing 20 DPS; slightly less because of dodge and parry, so we'll go with 30 and 16 DPS. Add in the DS: 24 damage every 2.5 seconds is an average extra 10 DPS (rounding is easier) so the pet is doing about 40 and the target mob is still doing 16, for 56 DPS total. The target will die in 25 seconds, and the pet will take 480 damage. In 50 seconds the pet will kill 2 mobs and have 40 HP left, netting me 3 kills after I tag it with ES vambs or a 100 mana root (for speed). You'll have 3 kills in 60 seconds; mine's faster in this scenario.

Now for a real situation: TD Raptor numbers (average 116 damage hits, average 3500 HP) where mobs take much longer to kill each other and repop quickly relative to how long the kills take. I won't run the math on it because I can rely on experience. You can get 9 kills in 3 cycles by charm-tanking and then, because of one or two bad charms, settle for 6 on the 4th cycle to gain back the mana you lost from being inefficient; you've done 33 raptors in one hour (if I'm lucky I can keep going with 9-kill cycles for longer, netting even faster exp, but we'll be pragmatic). I've also done 6 in 15 minutes using fear, for 24 in an hour, with Charm lasting up to 20 minutes which it doesn't do anymore.

Your method is "more efficient" but I'm the one getting 35% more experience. I also don't ever need a charm to last more than about 3 minutes, allowing me to recast it less overall and keep mobs wailing on each other for a larger amount of time. Faster exp, less prone to bad luck, and no wasted time and bag space getting daggers for your pet.