Game Mechanics: Instrument Mods

[hotstud]

I'm saying that you can leave a song going, passively, and remove your modifier and it will continue to be modified regardless of what you equip on the next pulse. You could start Hymn with a lute equipped for the first pulse and then switch to your weapons and you'll have lute modded regen while you melee with your weapons out. There is no way that is classic. Every pulse of a song is supposed to check your currently equipped modifier. You really think the way it worked originally is that somehow, magically, your Bard was playing a Lute while it was in his bag and hes holding two swords? No, every song pulse checks your current mod and you would be singing if you removed your modifier.

This is supported further by the fact that this is exactly how it works if you start singing a song, then equip a mod for the next pulse, then go back to signing. Every single pulse of the sing checks your current modifier. It's only if you start with an instrument mod and then try to switch to singing on next pulse that it continues using the modifier.

One or the other of these two situations is bugged obviously. Either the first modifier used when a song starts or the highest modifier is used regardless of equipment changes (first situation) or every pulse of a song even when the song is running passively checks your currently equipped modifier (second situation). Currently both of those outcomes are possible depending on if you started the song singing or with an instrument.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by hotstud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no way that is classic.

Why?

Every pulse of a song is supposed to check your currently equipped modifier.

Again, why?

No, every song pulse checks your current mod and you would be singing if you removed your modifier.

What makes you think this apart from "common sense"? You need to show how it was in classic using evidence (like everlore archives, or even showing how it works on eqmac would probably be enough)

This is supported further by the fact that this is exactly how it works if you start singing a song, then equip a mod for the next pulse, then go back to signing. Every single pulse of the sing checks your current modifier. It's only if you start with an instrument mod and then try to switch to singing on next pulse that it continues using the modifier.

One or the other of these two situations is bugged obviously. Either the first modifier used when a song starts or the highest modifier is used regardless of equipment changes (first situation) or every pulse of a song even when the song is running passively checks your currently equipped modifier (second situation). Currently both of those outcomes are possible depending on if you started the song singing or with an instrument.

Right, this is just evidence (but not proof) that one of these situations is bugged, not necessarily that the former is the one that's bugged. You need more evidence.

[Arrisard]

Originally Posted by hotstud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm saying that you can leave a song going, passively, and remove your modifier and it will continue to be modified regardless of what you equip on the next pulse. You could start Hymn with a lute equipped for the first pulse and then switch to your weapons and you'll have lute modded regen while you melee with your weapons out

I know what you're saying, because I said it in my previous post.

Originally Posted by hotstud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no way that is classic. Every pulse of a song is supposed to check your currently equipped modifier. You really think the way it worked originally is that somehow, magically, your Bard was playing a Lute while it was in his bag and hes holding two swords? No, every song pulse checks your current mod and you would be singing if you removed your modifier.

Yes, I do think that's how it worked. If it worked the way you think it should work, then there would be absolutely no reason to actually twist instruments, now would there? All those bards juggling all those instruments for years with almost no point to it. Instead, it was common practice in order to maintain peak efficiency. (The "how do you think this works, magic?!" kinda loses its meaning in a game with ... magic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

"Now, it is also possible to twist instruments. Most people freak out at the concept of this at first, but it’s really not as tough as it sounds (although there are varying degrees). For the most part, this means starting a song with an instrument equipped, waiting for the text message, starting the next song, switching the instruments before the next text message, and repeating."

From EQDiva circa 2003-ish.

"Juggling
Before doing anything else with juggling, go set the command /fastdrop never. Otherwise, you will discover how many weapons and instruments you can leave scattered across West Karana.

Bards need to juggle both weapons and instruments to be at their peak. This can be tricky, but by hot keying you can manage easily enough. To juggle your instruments, the basics are:

Two Instruments
I sometimes use this to play Selos (run fast) and Hymn of Restoration (regen.) while running. I also use it for many other situations, but this makes a good, low-level example:

1. Equip the your drum in your secondary melee slot. (melee number 2).

2. Play Selos Accelerando.

3. Pick up the your mandolin in your cursor.

4. Hover it over the melee slot.

5. When Selos pulses Your feet move faster. stop Selos and start Hymn.

6. Click on the melee slot. Your instruments should switch places.

7. When Hymn pulses Your wounds begin to heal. stop Hymn and restart Selos

8. Click on the melee slot to switch your instruments again.

9. Repeat."

From Concert Hall.

Again, just because something "doesn't make sense" does not automatically mean it isn't classic EverQuest. Anyone who has played this game half awake for even a few hours could probably come up with a laundry list of mechanics that "don't make sense". So just going on that is, well, pretty worthless.

[Rais]

Every pulse of a song is supposed to check your currently equipped modifier.

Again, why?

Because the only thing that allowed this was the Bard Epic. That is why it was EPIC. It had the modifier of all, while allowing to melee.

I don't know much about bards from live. I only know how their buffs/clicks/debuffs would stack with others along the same spell line. They don't on p99.

I also can only tell you from when playing my bard. If I remove my brass horn, my dot on the next tick is less, than when it was equipped. One person is saying that's not the case, but I see it. The other person is saying it happens, but its not classic. This I agree in part with, but I don't see my mods effecting my dot without the horn on after activating the dot.

My bard is only level 33 and I see this. Maybe it changes at some level and you all don't see this. Weirder things have happened on this server.

[Arrisard]

"Because the only thing that allowed this was the Bard Epic."

Just because the bard epic had mods for all instruments + singing, does not mean that the classic mechanic for instrument juggling didn't exist. You could just as easily say that the epic was epic because 1. you didn't really have juggle anymore, and 2. singing mod, which was not obtainable ingame anywhere else. I vividly remember these two points of why the epic was so important for the bard.

I've already given excerpts from guides from that era that clearly state juggling instruments on this server is working as intended or at least very close to.

Since all the songs tick at the same time, and obviously you could only have one instrument equipped at a time, then only one song would get modded. Why even bother changing them out when you cast it then? This was standard practice for any bard that didn't suck/was lazy.

If it didn't work in this fashion, then literally thousands of bards were doing it for absolutely zero benefit for years when it would have been EASILY observable that it was a waste of time and effort.

That, to me, makes even less sense.

As far as how it' working on this server, I'm uploading the video's to Youtube right now, but it's gonna take a while. I'm not going to do each individual song, I've already tried almost of them, and they all act the same way. Guard Reskin was kind enough to volunteer.

Instrument equipped when song FINISHES INITIAL CASTING (not when you start casting, not when the song first ticks - the only thing that matters is when the instant when the casting bar timer runs out. If you miss that moment, the below situation applies in the next paragraph) = full mod forever more, until you stop singing that song for whatever reason. However, even if you stop casting and sing something else, the 2nd and 3rd ticks will still carry the full mod until the song runs out.

If no mod is equipped when the song FINISHES IT'S INITIAL CASTING = mods will only check on active ticks for that tick.

Again, if it the mod didn't hold from the initial casting, juggling instruments would be completely pointless, the guides on the wayback machine to which I quoted are completely wrong, and everyone was wrong about what was quite easy to see right in front of them for years.

If there is other EVIDENCE to the contrary of how the mechanics worked, post it. Not "but that doesn't make sense!". That isn't evidence, that's an opinion.

[Rais]

Originally Posted by Arrisard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Because the only thing that allowed this was the Bard Epic."

Just because the bard epic had mods for all instruments + singing, does not mean that the classic mechanic for instrument juggling didn't exist. You could just as easily say that the epic was epic because 1. you didn't really have juggle anymore, and 2. singing mod, which was not obtainable ingame anywhere else. I vividly remember these two points of why the epic was so important for the bard.

You and I are on the same page. I'm not saying you're not suppose to be able to juggle them. I'm just saying Epics made it so you didn't have to anymore and it made that Epic all in its own. And the need of juggling the instruments was needed to get the mods on each song.

[Arrisard]

Oh, I misinterpreted why you were quoting him as agreeing with the first quote, it's late [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the mod thing is really working differently for different bards, though, that would be really weird, heh.

[Uthgaard]

It should only perform a new check on your modifiers if you persistently cast it (leaving a song on, effectively casting it again, refreshing the duration). Not for the passively remaining ticks of a song already cast.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It should only perform a new check on your modifiers if you persistently cast it (leaving a song on, effectively casting it again, refreshing the duration). Not for the passively remaining ticks of a song already cast.

Oh, then the current functionality is wrong (it takes whatever modifier you used on the first cast, even if you have it persistently cast with a different instrument). Thanks uthgaard.

[hotstud]

I can see that almost everyone posting here has a different understanding of the situation except Lazor. I'll try to make it more straightforward...

You can start singing Selos with a drum equipped. After the song starts you can remove your drum and equip whatever you want and you'll still run at Selos drum speed until you restart the song. Even if it runs for 5 hours and you only equip a drum for the first pulse it will be drum modified the entire time.