almost 80 people in fear

[Samuel]

^ Hmm I quoted the wrong line, oh well.

[Zexa]

Originally Posted by Samuel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This.

IB keeps claiming they had a right to Draco because we went under 15 men for a couple minutes. Why wasn't fifteen minutes called on us as soon as your raid force showed up? Why isn't north wall an acceptable place to stage for Draco? FB was the first in the zone with 15 and clearing for Draco, why doesn't this give us the mob?

The logic behind it is mostly that if you are fighting towards a raid mob and wipe, you are no longer the guild in the most capable position to kill the mob if another guild is waiting behind you in line.

As for the rest, I don't know the situation so I can't say more than the north wall sounds like a slow way to do it, but whatever floats your boat. I thought the north wall was only brought up regarding it being trained.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Zexa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The logic behind it is mostly that if you are fighting towards a raid mob and wipe, you are no longer the guild in the most capable position to kill the mob if another guild is waiting behind you in line.

As for the rest, I don't know the situation so I can't say more than the north wall sounds like a slow way to do it, but whatever floats your boat. I thought the north wall was only brought up regarding it being trained.

Yes but as I said before, the way the rules are currently implemented there is nothing stopping guild B from KS-ing guild A the moment any single person out of guild A's 15 dies.

If guild A is given the half hour warning (which they should be given in such a case) then they should be able to use those full 30 minutes. I have seen raids half wipe plenty of times before a boss was killed. It doesn't matter if there are only 7 people left standing when the boss dies as long as they had the 15 to claim it and get the half hour warning. Unless of course Guild A asks for help or says we give up, it's all yours (before their timer is up).

[Ferok]

This is why you call "I got it!" in baseball, when a fly is coming your way.

Otherwise, epic headbonk ensues.

[Zexa]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes but as I said before, the way the rules are currently implemented there is nothing stopping guild B from KS-ing guild A the moment any single person out of guild A's 15 dies.

If guild A is given the half hour warning (which they should be given in such a case) then they should be able to use those full 30 minutes. I have seen raids half wipe plenty of times before a boss was killed. It doesn't matter if there are only 7 people left standing when the boss dies as long as they had the 15 to claim it and get the half hour warning. Unless of course Guild A asks for help or says we give up, it's all yours (before their timer is up).

Not really, because there are server rules about KSing. If the raid is engaged with the target and another group attacks and getts loot rights then that would be KSing by most people's definition.

My example: Fish Bait engaging Draco last week after Trans took him to about 10% with 8 people still in zone.

The purpose of the arbitrary 15 person raid force is to give us a clear definition on when you can claim the mob. But to your point of a raid force dropping below 15 people, I suppose it is being translated different depending on which side of the incident you were on.

I believe you see the problem here when you read the part of the raid rules that state, "If a raid force is at the raid target and you begin gathering your own forces you are required to give the raid for that was there first a grace period of 30 minutes."

But there is also: "[B]Q: What is a raid force?[/B]
A: For technicalities sake we will define a raid force as a gathering of 15+ people."

I wasn't there, don't know what happened. I'm just wasting some time at work reading the drama and that's how I understand it. Sounds like there was a "technicality." I can personally tell you that IB's leadership does try to engage in communication with competing raids to make sure both sides are on the same page.

[Ektar]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By this logic any guild could in theory try to KS a raid mob any time a 15 person raid has a single person go Linkdead or dies from an AOE. That's not right and it completely negates the half hour rule.

Totally retarded and you know that's not in any way implied. Part of logical argument is assuming your opponents' best case scenario and overlooking little holes in their words.

Once the mob is engaged legitimately no one is going to, in his right mind, possibly rationalize a legitimate seizing of the mob. "Oh my god guys one of their rogues got too much agro and died! They have 14 now CHARGE!" ...

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also by this logic a previous argument that you guild had regarding the fact that a single group with a cleric and a chanter could take out Draco would never be allowed to happen. This is something that very recently you guys were arguing for.

Incorrect! This situation actually DID arise between our two guilds! Early morning draco spawn, and neither guild could muster 15. Divinity attempted and wiped, then we attempted. Div mustered 15 and attempted to claim draco, and I would have allowed it if draco was not CURRENTLY incoming heh. If the claim had come a bit earlier, we would have had to yield to your raid (15+ constitutes a raid) and wait for you to wipe again (if you wiped, that is) to have our attempt.

This is my interpretation of the rules. I believe you are confusing the argument of killing things with less than 15. The argument is the number should be lower than 15 (draco and maestro do require a raid force, perhaps?). But whatever the case, while unchanged, the number is 15.

[Dabamf]

Originally Posted by Ektar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

k well I gotta gently disagree with you here before someone jumps at this chance to destroy us. We do not consider the PoH zonein to be claim to maestro. Furthermore, pretty sure we don't consider merely being in PoF with 15 being claim to draco.

However, what you MEANT to say, I'm sure, is that being 15 at west wall is claim rather than less than 15 at north wall.

Once again, I wasn't there. Not commenting where people ACTUALLY were. I just had to correct this before someone went crazy balls on us.

I meant "dont we all" as a lot of the server, not ib...I recall a rant or 2 about people being at the zone-in and complaining that maestro was theirs since they had 15

but yea, i miss most disputes bc every time i raid its 4am in the states and mobs are rarely contested =p

But anyway, it is clear that IB had reasonable grounds to believe that draco belonged to them, fish bait had reasonable grounds to be mad that IB engaged mid-fight, and divinity had reasonable grounds to be mad that both guilds engaged before them.

Not every dispute has a bad guy, even if it is human nature to try to find one because it makes life simpler

[Armin34]

IB rant vs IB rant is like a faction war

[Armin34]

Originally Posted by Finawin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol you're so wrong it's cute, but please continue Mr. Anonymous player.

and as for the numbers anyone does anything with:

"No, you guys can't come for a shot at loot. Some noob on the forums might not think we're leet if you come and boost our numbers while we clear and let loot rot instead."

LOL, arn't you the guy who's "love of your life" massively cheated on you, and now you hate women 4 life? Bro, its because you have no game.. the only game you got is EQ and being an english teacher on the forums. No wonder why your girl left you for some other guy. You may be witty and smart, but definately not someone women desire. Quit trolling on here, and get outside and work on your real game, and maybe you won't be such a dick. Maybe you should go get laid legit...paying a prostitute or blowup dolls don't count.

[karsten]

"have sex with a real girl" card: check