Raiding on P1999

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just to try to steer this away from guild bashing/personal attacks again.. does anyone actually have a problem with shortening the variance? Would a +/-6 hour variance be too little? What about +/-12? I'm not crazy about ideas that don't *feel* classic (like making mobs more likely to spawn when Trak is in window), let's just try to keep things simple, and if it doesn't work out we can try something else or revert it to how it was before.

What about more consistent server repops? I'm not saying patches should happen more often, but when they do (only for content changes, and not emergency patches), I think mobs should always repop, just like in classic. Does anyone object to this?

For what little my opinion counts, I think these are both very good ideas. I think +/-12 would be the bare minimum that would be sensible for Trakanon, so I think cutting the windows in half would be a good call.

As to patch-day re-pops, that might be a more complicated issue than we think:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...9&postcount=42
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=105
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=207

However multiple comments by Rogean, Uthgaard, Nilbog, and others in that thread were to the effect of "IB/DA is still going to get to the targets before you," and I think that with the advent of Kunark, and the various full repops that we have seen in these past months, we can be fairly confident that that isn't the #1 concern anymore: there are enough raid targets like VS and Severilous that everyone can get a reasonable shot when every mob comes back up.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For what little my opinion counts, I think these are both very good ideas. I think +/-12 would be the bare minimum that would be sensible for Trakanon, so I think cutting the windows in half would be a good call.

As to patch-day re-pops, that might be a more complicated issue than we think:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...9&postcount=42
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=105
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=207

However multiple comments by Rogean, Uthgaard, Nilbog, and others in that thread were to the effect of "IB/DA is still going to get to the targets before you," and I think that with the advent of Kunark, and the various full repops that we have seen in these past months, we can be fairly confident that that isn't the #1 concern anymore: there are enough raid targets like VS and Severilous that everyone can get a reasonable shot when every mob comes back up.

Patch day repops do happen, just very inconsistently. Last patch day had no repops although as Shiftin pointed out, at least four guilds (TMO/TR/VD/Div) prepared for it (since Rogean announced there'd be a patch at 2PM), assuming there would be repops. It's been tested and so far I've seen absolutely no harm come from them, the only problem in my opinion is that they don't happen often enough.

[Spud]

Yes, please. More server re-pops after patches. It's the one time smaller guilds get a chance at many bosses. And is the variance of the boss mob after a server repop necessary? it seems like its just wasting people's time, especially after already waiting around for the server to come back.

I'm all for reducing normal 7 day mob variances too. (is anyone against it?) +/- 24 hours seems reasonable and close to classic.

I guess a rotation is out of the question haha.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

<---- Still would like to see all other raid mobs (minus vp) that are in window during trak's window have an increased chance to spawn.

IDK how that doesn't benefit everyone.

TMO/TR mains camped in Trak lair... check
Other guilds on the prowl for targets... check


more competition, more incentive, and even TR/TMO benefit in a way.

And no silly rotation crap most of all.

^^
Yes, this would be a good start, although neither top guild gets any 'VP brownie points' for modifying their behavior by exactly 0.

And adding to the current discussion on patches, we could definitely argue that the server not patching every (or every other) week is also decidedly 'unclassic'.

Turning back the clock 10 years there was more dragons/gods popping for exactly that reason : more patches.

It's kind of hard to really *complain* about the fact p99's Devs are more on the ball than Verant was in 1999, but ti's undoubtedly costing the raiding guilds a considerable amount of extra targets per month. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reducing the variance approaches classic; your suggestion makes the server feel even more custom, even if everyone were to agree that it's fair.

I think we can all agree that the current system is indeed, not classic. Adjusting a non-classic system slightly does not make it less classic or more classic. The current system was put in because the classic system didn't work.

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^
Yes, this would be a good start, although neither top guild gets any 'VP brownie points' for modifying their behavior by exactly 0.

And adding to the current discussion on patches, we could definitely argue that the server not patching every (or every other) week is also decidedly 'unclassic'.

Turning back the clock 10 years there was more dragons/gods popping for exactly that reason : more patches.

It's kind of hard to really *complain* about the fact p99's Devs are more on the ball than Verant was in 1999, but ti's undoubtedly costing the raiding guilds a considerable amount of extra targets per month. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure exactly what is going on between TR/TMO and Rog/Nil, but i have heard of discussions on how to handle VP. I know our guild has ideas that have been thrown around for awhile on our boards about how to help the server not hurt it, but just like here, not many agree with everyone's ideas.

I can't speak on TR and their motives, but TMO does, if save for some, generally care about what others on p99 think.


I don't think you can satisfy everyone(guild) on p99 and try to stick to the "gotta be super classic" especially when things aren't classic already. Creating more 'What-if's' in the current raid system will do nothing but improve the raiding scene on p99. TR and TMO will both have to be on their toes when camped for trak if the rates were adjusted on other targets and other guilds would be more inclined to participate. TR/TMO get more competition and other guilds get to enjoy more content.

Not only would this help, but a 1-week random full/half server pop would be nice.

[Kika Maslyaka]

The only problem with P99 raiding is not enough raid targets to go around. Blame Verant, who designed initial game with a total of whooping 3 raid encounters.
Of course, in their defense, it needed to be said, that they never anticipated the popularity EQ will reach. By their own words, they projected that EQ will peak at around 40-60k players max, and die out within a year. And they thought that only TINY fraction of players would actually want to raid Dragons and such.

It wasn't until PoP era when there finally were enough raid targets spread through different difficulty levels for all kinds of guilds to attempt.

Once things progress up to Velious/ToV/Sleeper, it will be a bit easier for lower end raid guilds to get their targets in Kunark, but till then...

I sympathize, but there is no universal solutions that will satisfy everyone.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think we can all agree that the current system is indeed, not classic. Adjusting a non-classic system slightly does not make it less classic or more classic. The current system was put in because the classic system didn't work.





I'm not sure exactly what is going on between TR/TMO and Rog/Nil, but i have heard of discussions on how to handle VP. I know our guild has ideas that have been thrown around for awhile on our boards about how to help the server not hurt it, but just like here, not many agree with everyone's ideas.

I can't speak on TR and their motives, but TMO does, if save for some, generally care about what others on p99 think.


I don't think you can satisfy everyone(guild) on p99 and try to stick to the "gotta be super classic" especially when things aren't classic already. Creating more 'What-if's' in the current raid system will do nothing but improve the raiding scene on p99. TR and TMO will both have to be on their toes when camped for trak if the rates were adjusted on other targets and other guilds would be more inclined to participate. TR/TMO get more competition and other guilds get to enjoy more content.

Not only would this help, but a 1-week random full/half server pop would be nice.

I agree with that, for sure. The only thing not classic about p99 is the player base. It's an awful lot of talent and pissants to fit into one single server, yet we manage. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And Kika's right, the game wasn't designed with a surplus of high levels in mind.

I advocate things like server splits and instancing mainly because it does what none of these threads do: attacks the problem directly at the head: a huge chunk of the server population is capable of experiencing high level encounters and succeeding, and only a small percentage of that is currently doing so. Would a server split be a band-aid? oh absolutely. Would instancing be a knee-jerk reaction? Of course, but instancing would completely solve the problem. The only thing instancing truly does is devalue the accomplishments and lewtz gained, which... if your self esteem and ego isn't fed directly thru a EQ EMU community, is a welcome trade-off. Hell i miss Kunark Beta, the community on there was great, and everyone worked together and had fun becuase the loot didn't really matter, it was more testing things and exploring and literally trying to get yourself killed in exciting ways. I doubt anyone on live p99 decided to test CLR Wake of Tranquility on the dozen golems sitting outside of Drusella's Room in HS. I swear i thought he got DT'd lool.

It's pretty much to the point that "It's not classic" doesn't even apply because nothing about the raid scene on p99 is really classic. /shrug. Back in 99 most servers at this point had only 1-2 guilds that could even find Trak's Lair in Sebilis with a 2 hour timer and GM god mode turned on.

Just do me a favor and spare the 'competition' argument.

1 . ) TR and TMO are both huge mergers.

2. ) Red 99 is around the corner, that's the real competition outlet.

3. ) If VD merged with Divinity and Taken merged with BDA and Poison merged with Reclamation and Wudan... every member of TR / TMO would not simultaneously drop to their knees praising allah screaming 'THANK GOD FINALLY SOME COMPETITION!"

So lets bag that for now. If you want a nice analogy of the raiding scene, the rest of us are rabbits frolicking in the field, and the merged guilds are the bunnies in cages staring out the laboratory window yelling at us 'LOOK AT ALL THE FREE FOOD WE'RE GETTING!" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think we can all agree that the current system is indeed, not classic. Adjusting a non-classic system slightly does not make it less classic or more classic. ...
I don't think you can satisfy everyone(guild) on p99 and try to stick to the "gotta be super classic" especially when things aren't classic already. ...

Actually, you can adjust things to be "more" classic very easily. Classic IS a matter of degree. For example, if every raid mob had a variance of 1 second on Live, and the p99 variance is 100 seconds, then reducing it to 50 seconds is "more classic". Suggesting some complicated script that makes mobs more likely to pop (how do you even do this?*) when Trak is in window is "less classic" than what we have now. Suggesting a reduction in the length of the variance is "more classic" since the variance was smaller in classic. The fact that lots of things aren't classic is certainly not an argument in favor of introducing yet another non-classic system. Like I said, let's just keep things simple.

*The way the variance works, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to do what you're asking. I think whenever a raid mob dies, a random timer between 5 and 9 days (for the 7 day bosses) starts, and when it ends, the boss spawns. It's not as if whenever their window opens, there's a super small probability "p" of the boss spawning, and you can just double that when trak's in window - when the boss spawns is predetermined and it would be very hard to program what you're suggesting in a way that still makes it equiprobable that a boss spawns at any given moment during its window.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, you can adjust things to be "more" classic very easily. Classic IS a matter of degree. For example, if every raid mob had a variance of 1 second on Live, and the p99 variance is 100 seconds, then reducing it to 50 seconds is "more classic". Suggesting some complicated script that makes mobs more likely to pop (how do you even do this?*) when Trak is in window is "less classic" than what we have now. Suggesting a reduction in the length of the variance is "more classic" since the variance was smaller in classic. The fact that lots of things aren't classic is certainly not an argument in favor of introducing yet another non-classic system. Like I said, let's just keep things simple.

*The way the variance works, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to do what you're asking. I think whenever a raid mob dies, a random timer between 5 and 9 days (for the 7 day bosses) starts, and when it ends, the boss spawns. It's not as if whenever their window opens, there's a super small probability "p" of the boss spawning, and you can just double that when trak's in window - when the boss spawns is predetermined and it would be very hard to program what you're suggesting in a way that still makes it equiprobable that a boss spawns at any given moment during its window.

It all depends on when the system dictates that a target spawns. Does it do it when the mob is killed, when the mob first starts to come into window.

It could be done, as I seriously doubt that it is impossible. I doubt it will every happen though. I actually doubt anything will happen to appease the other guilds on the server (aside from the chance that all VP dragons each have their own variance and no rotation is set-up between TMO/TR)

If there isn't a rotation, and the dragons each have their own variance. The rest of p99 will probably never see any TMO or TR member (due to them just quitting or being stuck in VP forever or getting banned due to shenanigans, be it on purpose or accidental).

[Titanuk]

did u know on red99 u will be able to peeveepee for your mobs