Raid rules suggestion

[Grento]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because it got old, dude. Same damn guilds doing the same damn shit, all because some people thought the drama was fun? A bunch of drama queens halfway across the country doing their best to deprive other guilds of content that they all paid the same monthly fee to enjoy?

I don't know if it had anything to do with sensitivity. I and a lot of other people had better ways to spend our time, I imagine. I spend all day at work dealing with people and resolving conflict and troubleshooting issues... it started to get to be the same thing at home during my recreation time. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess we just value different things about old EQ. What I liked about it was the harshness, the fact that you could get screwed out of things easily. If you annoy the wrong people, you are blacklisted and might never see a raid again. If you can't 1 up your competition, you get left behind.

Something that worked well when I was playing was guilds forming raiding coalitions. X and Y guild hate how Z guild is working, X and Y guild decide they are going to start working together by using each others trackers and informing each other when mobs are up. You have to split the loot but oh well, at least Z guild aint getting it.

[yaaaflow]

True story, I had the competition vs rotation discussion with Rallyd one time, and he was adamant that the competition system was analogous to communism (since only a few people were getting raid targets) while the rotation system would be more like capitalism (since they would be shared with everyone, yay!). And being a good, hardworking American who hates commies, he was obviously for the rotation system.



Yeah I know this has nothing to do with this thread.

[Grento]

Originally Posted by yaaaflow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True story, I had the competition vs rotation discussion with Rallyd one time, and he was adamant that the competition system was analogous to communism (since only a few people were getting raid targets) while the rotation system would be more like capitalism (since they would be shared with everyone, yay!). And being a good, hardworking American who hates commies, he was obviously for the rotation system.



Yeah I know this has nothing to do with this thread.

I thought everyone sharing was communism and everyone for themselves based on who puts in the most time and work was capitalism.... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by yaaaflow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True story, I had the competition vs rotation discussion with Rallyd one time, and he was adamant that the competition system was analogous to communism (since only a few people were getting raid targets) while the rotation system would be more like capitalism (since they would be shared with everyone, yay!). And being a good, hardworking American who hates commies, he was obviously for the rotation system.



Yeah I know this has nothing to do with this thread.

LOL, that's all ass-backwards. I would say competition system is analogous to capitalism (wealth goes to a few, screw the rest), and rotation system is more like socialism (everyone gets their fair share!)

[Grento]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL, that's all ass-backwards. I would say competition system is analogous to capitalism (wealth goes to a few, screw the rest), and rotation system is more like socialism (everyone gets their fair share!)

I think we may have just missed the joke behind it ;p

[guineapig]

Just a few words on this concept of "competition" that people keep mentioning.

True competition comes from some sort of an even playing field to begin with. And by this I'm not referring to both teams having the same skill level (no two teams are exactly the same, each has its strengths and weaknesses).

But in every other case I can possibly think of, competition requires somebody to compete against. How does a basketball team compete if the other team is not on the court?

So being able to be online at any hour of the day might show some crazy form of dedication on your part, it does not show much else.

True competition would be 2 groups of the same number of people, online at the same time when the raid target is up. "Ready, set, go."

Geting raid targets when the rest of the server population is at work or asleep is like playing tennis with nobody on the other side of the net.

(Sorry if this was slightly off topic but I've been meaning to bring it up for a while.)

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fine, then address the fact that people are acting like spoiled 12-year-olds fighting over 10-year-old content. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The crux of the issue is this:

There is not enough raid content to go around for those capable of raiding it.

Therefore, this implies the fix is either:

a) Generate enough raid content to go around, or
b) Ration the existing raid content in a fair and even manner.

This is an example of the logical fallacy of false dichotomy. Your entire argument is nonsense.

[Grento]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just a few words on this concept of "competition" that people keep mentioning.

True competition comes from some sort of an even playing field to begin with. And by this I'm not referring to both teams having the same skill level (no two teams are exactly the same, each has its strengths and weaknesses).

But in every other case I can possibly think of, competition requires somebody to compete against. How does a basketball team compete if the other team is not on the court?

So being able to be online at any hour of the day might show some crazy form of dedication on your part, it does not show much else.

True competition would be 2 groups of the same number of people, online at the same time when the raid target is up. "Ready, set, go."

Geting raid targets when the rest of the server population is at work or asleep is like playing tennis with nobody on the other side of the net.

(Sorry if this was slightly off topic but I've been meaning to bring it up for a while.)

Interesting take. I think it all depends on what the end objective is and what exactly you are competing for. If you are just competing over the same mob then I would agree with you. If you are competing in an arms race to get everyone in your guild fully geared so you can be the first to tackle the next raid zone opening up and get all those server firsts, that changes the scenario quite a bit.

This is the same great debate that has been going on since the beginning of MMO’s, power gamers vs casual gamers. Unfortunately there will never be a way to make everyone happy, everyone is going to have to learn to be a little bit unhappy.

"The definition of a true compromise is when both parties walk away feeling they just got screwed"

*EDIT*

Just to clarify, I don't advocate any sort of griefing or training on a non pvp server.

[Kraal]

This is why I'm such a proponent of my system, not everyone is going to be 100% happy all the time because someone is going to be dicked over since raid targets at the moment are scare.

By popping them all on certain days and certain times (you can even switch the days up) you're allowing for an economic principle called substitution, and even if one guilds feels that an Inny kill is inferior to say a Nagafen kill based on loot garnered they still had the opportunity to get at least one raid target.

We've talked about capitalism a lot in this thread and how "competition" drives it, yet you fail to understand all goods and services have substitutes, every action has opportunity cost and you're only seeing the tiny portion of capitalism that involves a victorious mentality.

[guineapig]

Your idea reminds me of one that I had posted here a week or two ago (which I actually got from yet another even older post).

Simulated server reset

Have all raid targets pop at the same time like once a week or something, if possible during peak times (but obviously not always since we have many overseas raiders as well now). This forces everyone to pick their target of choice but maybe go for their second choice if they feel there will be too much competition for their number 1 pick.

It works on multiple fronts.

1.) IT SIMULATES CLASSIC!!! raid bosses respawned on actual server resets on live and we don't have that here, so lets simulate it.

2.) Every current raid capable guild should have a shot at at least 1 raid target a week without it being handed to them. If a guild thinks they are really hot shit they can try and go after multiple targets but will either be racing against the clock or have to split their raid force in 2!!!

3.) IT SIMULATES CLASSIC!!!

4.) It still involves strategy and competitive racing:
Where will everyone bind all week long? Who do we think Guild X will go after?
Is it worth it to race them? If they go after Inny/Cazic should we just let them get Maestro/Dracho as well or do we go after the minor boss?

5.) IT SIMULATES CLASSIC!!!

6.) If we count all the guilds that could currently take out a raid boss (in alphabetical order): Divinity, Fish Bait, Gothic Circle, IB, Remedy, Trans (forgive me if you feel your guild should be included and I didn’t mention you) this still doesn’t just give a guild a raid boss. In the case of a wipe, another guild who’s already done with their first target could swoop in and take yours. During off hours 1 guild could get multiple targets uncontested. Some guild might simply not be able to muster the numbers they feel they need and bow out one week. 2 smaller guilds might band together just for the hell of it. Hell you could even see pickup raids at like 4 in the morning. Anything could happen.

All that being said, we can still keep the current variance spawn cycle in effect for all the raid bosses but those timers will reset every time the server is reset. Voila!!! Everybody gets what they want and nobody gets any hand outs.