Bob's Perfect World- A wall of text regarding the raid scene on P99

[Anger]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They've said, time and again, no FFA.

But now that Bob is involved, its srs bsns.

[Duma]

I cant recall a single time where Uth or Rogean ported into seb after getting a petition (or 500 of them and only 2-3 that are actually legible), saw the dumbasses sitting there and said "eff you, im deleting the loot and he's not spawning for a week until you get this shit settled." THAT is the hallmark of a GM not giving 2 shits and actually wanting to take a step back and not be involved in their BS. This doesn't happen and it has never happened. That's what i've meant by pandering.

"If we don't get the kill no one gets the kill. We'll be here every week to contest and get it depopped".

It's happened before.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Radiskull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as the rotation goes, there is zero reason for TR or TMO to EVER let anyone in on a relevant kill. If they decided to rotate on Trak (I know, never happening) then for a 3rd guild to even get on the rotation they'd have to show a willingness to poopsock EVERY Trak kill they way TR and TMO have the last few months. I see no other guild on the server even contemplating this as an option. So any rotation talks should be between TR and TMO, not Divinity, Taken, VD, BDA, etc. Want to come at the two big dogs, you have to put in what they've put in, which is countless hours doing nothing on a ledge in Sebilis.

I really think my idea solves all of this and I did provide a reason why TR/TMO would opt for the kind of rotation I suggested. If you only let guilds rotate on mobs they've killed before, TR/TMO doesn't have to rotate on Trak since no other guild has killed Trak. If another guild poopsocks Trak then they're violating the terms of the rotation - this is fair since the best way to determine their worthiness to kill Trak isn't to see if they're willing to poopsock, but to see if they can kill Trak on a server repop before all other guilds can get to him. This way it's not just a contest of who can kill Trak under ideal conditions but who can kill Trak AND mobilize to him the fastest. Also, this arrangement still guarantees TR/TMO the vast majority of the mobs (1/2 of all trakanons, 1/3 of all VS's (I think?), probably 1/2 of most of the kunark dragons, etc.) but it has the added benefit of them not having to devote so much time to the game. The people in TR/TMO aren't massochistic, they don't LIKE to poopsock or to do nothing but track for an entire window, but they do it because there's no alternative that will guarantee their guilds a bigger share of the raid targets. My suggestion makes sure that guilds with previous success on this server get more mobs but still allows for a rotation on mobs that other guilds have killed.

[Vondra]

To prevent poopsocking, along with variance...have the boss be able to spawn at a wide variety of popular low/mid level hunting areas instead of where it is supposed to.

Mostly because I want to hear shouts like "Need help with Nagafen at Orc 1" in EC and "TRAK TO ZONE!" in crushbone

[Dr4z3r]

Bob, I think you're overestimating the amount of time that developers spend on handling player disputes. Kanras and Haynar are not server guides (to my knowledge), and they don't spend any time responding to petitions about dragons. In fact, I think the only person that crossed over that boundary in recent memory was Uthgaard.

All of you advocating a solution to the raid scene without GM enforcement would do well to read up on The Prinsoner's Dilemma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma) and/or The Tragedy of the Commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons), edit: and/or the concept of the Dominant Strategy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_strategy). This goes double for Lazortag, who has apparently reached the conclusion that 'socking isn't rational. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Duie]

Originally Posted by Dravingar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

B)TR has never gone into a zone and demanded people to leave. We might say something about us pulling a mob and to be careful to not die to it.

You remeber when Taken sat at island 4 in sky and(admitedly)" broke the rules"? Did you ever ask yourself why we were so hell bent at making sure you guys didnt get another mob that day?

Well it ws atell that Both Zeelot and shaere got stating that we are taking Djorn and the rest of those pops and you and your guld needs to leave NOW.
You see Tmo came up, before TR , asked our intents and we came to an agreement, Seeing everyone of those mobs can drop the same loot, Why couldn't TR talk it out and say to hell with the damn "rules" instead of running to them and Telling us to leave? Youd Find Shaere and Zeelot reasonable people if your leaders were not so hel lbent in being dicks.

[Dravingar]

Originally Posted by Duie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You remeber when Taken sat at island 4 in sky and(admitedly)" broke the rules"? Did you ever ask yourself why we were so hell bent at making sure you guys didnt get another mob that day?

Well it ws atell that Both Zeelot and shaere got stating that we are taking Djorn and the rest of those pops and you and your guld needs to leave NOW.
You see Tmo came up, before TR , asked our intents and we came to an agreement, Seeing everyone of those mobs can drop the same loot, Why couldn't TR talk it out and say to hell with the damn "rules" instead of running to them and Telling us to leave? Youd Find Shaere and Zeelot reasonable people if your leaders were not so hel lbent in being dicks.

I can't make this post without it turning into a FnF post so I'll just say lol.

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

Someone suggested instancing in another thread, but that would make the rare items too common

Removing all of the rules in regards to training could be disaster for lowbie camps/everywhere else in general

Having big raid target mobs spawn in random zones would be HILARIOUS (and may work, maybe?)

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[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Lol, this is nice

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bob, I think you're overestimating the amount of time that developers spend on handling player disputes. Kanras and Haynar are not server guides (to my knowledge), and they don't spend any time responding to petitions about dragons. In fact, I think the only person that crossed over that boundary in recent memory was Uthgaard.

All of you advocating a solution to the raid scene without GM enforcement would do well to read up on The Prinsoner's Dilemma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma) and/or The Tragedy of the Commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons). This goes double for Lazortag, who has apparently reached the conclusion that 'socking isn't rational. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm pretty sure most of us have spent more than a minute in a university and are familiar with both of those thought experiments. Either way, I'm not sure why you lumped me in the category of people who oppose GM involvement in the raid scene, since I think the GM's should be involved. Also this situation is hardly analogous to a prisoner's dilemma since you can actually see if a guild is poopsocking before the mob spawns; you have no idea if your accomplice in a crime is going to snitch or if they're going to honour your agreement, so in that situation it's rational to defect. However, if you initially agree not to poopsock, you're never going to get screwed by the "they defected, you cooperated" situation (which is the worst one to be on the receiving end of) since you can actually change your decision before the "game" is over. That way there's no benefit to "defecting" since it guarantees that the opposing guild will defect. See this part of the article that you yourself linked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisone...neralized_form