Xzerion says TR isn't shown favoritism?

[Enygma]

Please stay on track here... this post was regarding the fact that given the exact same circumstances:

1. Koota was caught using Show EQ tracking Dracoliche -> Koota was an officer of DA and as a result banned and Dark Ascension was Raid suspended for 1 week.

2. Perun was caught using Show EQ by a .dll file -> Perun was an officer/raid leader of Transatlantic Rampage and as a result was suspended and deleveled to 54 had platinum removed. TR was not raid suspended.

At this time Rogean has said he will discuss the matter with Nilbog.

Please discuss your thoughts of why this circumstance is at all different, both people had the same advantage and provided an advantage to their guild. Why should the punishment differ?

Your thoughts on the totality of circumstances regarding the 365+ accounts that were identified should be brought to another thread. Thank you.

Sworen

[Humerox]

Not really, because the smaller issue can be taken care of with a more satisfying response to the larger.

[Maze513]

Originally Posted by Enygma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please stay on track here... this post was regarding the fact that given the exact same circumstances:

1. Koota was caught using Show EQ tracking Dracoliche -> Koota was an officer of DA and as a result banned and Dark Ascension was Raid suspended for 1 week.

2. Perun was caught using Show EQ by a .dll file -> Perun was an officer/raid leader of Transatlantic Rampage and as a result was suspended and deleveled to 54 had platinum removed. TR was not raid suspended.

At this time Rogean has said he will discuss the matter with Nilbog.

Please discuss your thoughts of why this circumstance is at all different, both people had the same advantage and provided an advantage to their guild. Why should the punishment differ?

Your thoughts on the totality of circumstances regarding the 365+ accounts that were identified should be brought to another thread. Thank you.

Sworen

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Enygma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please stay on track here... this post was regarding the fact that given the exact same circumstances:

1. Koota was caught using Show EQ tracking Dracoliche -> Koota was an officer of DA and as a result banned and Dark Ascension was Raid suspended for 1 week.

2. Perun was caught using Show EQ by a .dll file -> Perun was an officer/raid leader of Transatlantic Rampage and as a result was suspended and deleveled to 54 had platinum removed. TR was not raid suspended.

At this time Rogean has said he will discuss the matter with Nilbog.

Please discuss your thoughts of why this circumstance is at all different, both people had the same advantage and provided an advantage to their guild. Why should the punishment differ?

Your thoughts on the totality of circumstances regarding the 365+ accounts that were identified should be brought to another thread. Thank you.

Sworen

Just taking a stab, but as far as I see, there are two significant differences.

#1 - Koota was caught using ShowEQ to the benefit of his guild, in order to track raid mobs. Regardless of whether or not DA knew how he was gaining this information, DA was clearly benefiting and raiding on the back of knowledge gained via 3rd party programs. While Perun was caught having utilized ShowEQ on P99, as far as I can tell, the circumstances and frequency of the usage were never divulged beyond what he himself said -- which is that it was only used on one occasion, and only in order to confirm that a dragon was being kited. Only a GM could verify the validity of that, but if it is true, it doesn't seem to be the equivalent of utilizing ShowEQ to indiscriminately track raid targets. Therefore, it's a bit of a logical leap -- at least for non-GMs -- to suggest TR benefited from Perun's use of ShowEQ in the manner that DA benefited from Koota's use of ShowEQ.

#2 - Koota was caught in a sting operation of sorts. From what I know, they were on the look-out for raid guilds using ShowEQ, and set up a trap to test it. Koota was the one and only person caught, and so it makes sense to come down hard. Even still, Koota himself was granted some leniency in that he was not permanently banned. Conversely, in this instance, 365 accounts were caught. All of them were granted leniency beyond any allowances that had previously been permitted. It wouldn't seem fair to hold TR to a harsh past precedent when every account caught is being granted leniency.

I think there are two fair scenarios.

#1 - permanently ban everyone caught cheating. Then, look into Perun's use of ShowEQ, and if it was utilized more than on that one specific occasion to verify a dragon being kited, raid ban TR for 1-week. That's fair.

#2 - What's been done. It's not ideal IMO, but it's fair. Everyone was given the same leniency, and it is a one-time and one-time only proposition. Anyone caught cheating henceforth -- whether it be an individual or a guild -- will be held to the server rules and past precedent.

[mala]

In response to the OP: there is no difference in my eyes. The punishment should be the same.

[G13]

Originally Posted by Gwence [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dropping 6 levels, all platinum, and 2 weeks suspension, that's a adequate punishment imo.

Some of you guys are really vindictive because you've had things happen to you in the past or are just straight bitter (G13 lol much respect) and now you think these people aren't getting the same treatment as you got or whatever...


I'd suggest marijuana for most of you, might help ease your stress.

That is not an adequate punishment. All of that exp and plat can be easily regained, especially when your guild is actively working to plvl you, and with a guild bank stock full of cash and items.

Your raid leader was caught using a 3rd party program to cheat. He has admitted he cheated openly during a raid against a competitive guild. If you do not distance yourself from this situation, by allowing him and other cheaters within your guild to re-app, you are making the statement that your guild accepts cheaters with open arms and will reward them.

If you want to cry in your cheerios and claim people have this opinion because they are vindictive than that's on you. You can try to mask your hypocrisy with arrogance and insults all you want. The facts are the facts. You can't troll your way around this one. IB/TR officer/raid leader was caught hacking/cheating and you accepted them back.

Previous guilds who had trackers/pullers/officers caught using SEQ were raid suspended for 2 weeks. The second time it was just a member that was caught, the guild suffered another 2 week raid suspension.

I propose that TR/IB suffer a 2 week raid suspension, since this can be considered your first infraction, and the player in question (beyond the numerous members that were caught cheating) was your raid leader/officer.

I have never cheated playing this game. There are a lot of players on this server with integrity that have never cheated, that have always assumed that other players played by the rules and it was an even playing field. By not taking appropriate action again your guild, the developers are making a statement. That they favor one guild over the other. EQUAL punishment is absolutely necessary to make this situation right.

Rogean you have always been reasonable. You know what I'm saying is true. If you're not going to perma ban these accounts, the proper and fair thing to do is at least hand out punishment that you yourself have previously set the precedent for, which is a 2 week raid suspension if an officer/raid leader is caught using a 3rd party program to cheat during competitive raids. Show the community they matter to you and do the right thing.

[Zenlina]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Koota himself was granted some leniency in that he was not permanently banned.

Yes but if you want to play by equal rights, then the others should be suspended for 3 month+ like koota then. Or at least i believe he was perma banned till kunark was open. Will need koota to confirm exactly on that.

[Gwence]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is not an adequate punishment. All of that exp and plat can be easily regained, especially when your guild is actively working to plvl you, and with a guild bank stock full of cash and items.

Your raid leader was caught using a 3rd party program to cheat. He has admitted he cheated openly during a raid against a competitive guild. If you do not distance yourself from this situation, by allowing him and other cheaters within your guild to re-app, you are making the statement that your guild accepts cheaters with open arms and will reward them.

If you want to cry in your cheerios and claim people have this opinion because they are vindictive than that's on you. You can try to mask your hypocrisy with arrogance and insults all you want. The facts are the facts. You can't troll your way around this one. IB/TR officer/raid leader was caught hacking/cheating and you accepted them back.

Previous guilds who had trackers/pullers/officers caught using SEQ were raid suspended for 2 weeks. The second time it was just a member that was caught, the guild suffered another 2 week raid suspension.

I propose that TR/IB suffer a 2 week raid suspension, since this can be considered your first infraction, and the player in question (beyond the numerous members that were caught cheating) was your raid leader/officer.

I have never cheated playing this game. There are a lot of players on this server with integrity that have never cheated, that have always assumed that other players played by the rules and it was an even playing field. By not taking appropriate action again your guild, the developers are making a statement. That they favor one guild over the other. EQUAL punishment is absolutely necessary to make this situation right.

Rogean you have always been reasonable. You know what I'm saying is true. If you're not going to perma ban these accounts, the proper and fair thing to do is at least hand out punishment that you yourself have previously set the precedent for, which is a 2 week raid suspension if an officer/raid leader is caught using a 3rd party program to cheat during competitive raids. Show the community they matter to you and do the right thing.

We haven't accepted him back but if there is some kind of vote I would definitely support his return and probably anyone elses. I dont turn my back on my friends or guildies because they make a bad decision.

The stigma all the "outed" people will have to deal with is probably the worst part of all of it. The people on the frontlines of it all (sadly) have there name out there for all to know now. IMO that's a worse punishment than a permaban. Leaving the game in the rear view window is the easy way out. Having to face people for the next 6 months or so.. that's tough.


oh and of course... much respect

[JayDee]

Gwence will defend his friends rights to hack and exploit until his dying breath

[G13]

Originally Posted by Gwence [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We haven't accepted him back but if there is some kind of vote I would definitely support his return and probably anyone elses. I dont turn my back on my friends or guildies because they make a bad decision.

This is an emotional argument. Not a rational one. I don't give a flying fuck if they "they are your friends". They are not my friends. They are not friends with the other 750+ that log in every day. Your reasoning here is meaningless.

The stigma all the "outed" people will have to deal with is probably the worst part of all of it. The people on the frontlines of it all (sadly) have there name out there for all to know now. IMO that's a worse punishment than a permaban. Leaving the game in the rear view window is the easy way out. Having to face people for the next 6 months or so.. that's tough.


oh and of course... much respect

I don't care about your stigma. Your emotion is irrelavent. I only care about cheaters receiving the proper punishment for breaking the rules. The precedent has been set. Your guild needs a 2 week raid suspension for the actions of your raid leader/officer. Period. End of story.