Interesting read.

[Jigga]

its amazing what people will do when they have an addiction

[Shannacore]

Rogean makes bank, he doesn't need your bank account infoz

[Sake]

That isn't at all relevant in a situation like this. The biggest issue is what happens when an outside source manages to get the information? Sure the staff may be using only the information they need. But it comes down to how the information is stored etc and what kind of security is in place to protect anyones privacy against 3rd parties.

Also does it pull as much information as claimed? If it just checks the processes running ok, but if it is gaining a lot more information as suggested in the OP then what? Its a very thin line, with no details from those that are issuing the invasion of peoples privacy.

However since you brought it up even though slightly unrelated, when has being well off stopped anyone from scamming people out of their money? Hell, look at most big corps who do *anything* for a penny.

People like EA do the same thing in a sense of invasion of privacy (brought up w/ origins and they have been doing it in the past) where they will scan your system etc and people are furious/up in arms about that. However EA has likely taken security measures and has the ability to compensate if something does happen to arise, also you agree to them doing such in their EULA when you accept it.

However here it was covertly given out to players without a single word, no aggreement was made by any of the users, etc etc. Also they aren't a big corp w/ the money and security to back such information. Like I said its a thin line, and its pretty brutal not seeing any information from the staff.

This is one of those issues that requires transparency and not a if you don't like it get out. I am assuming anyone that accepts their privacy being covertly invaded and has the DONT LIKE IT GET OUT attitude is probably the same type of people that post their most personal details on facebook for the world to see which is insanity.

[Arrisard]

Originally Posted by Sake [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have the staff mentioned anything at all about these files yet? As someone who was interested prior to hearing about this in playing I am a bit concerned that there hasn't been a word from the staff.

Seems like a lot of speculation / concerns could be remedied if the staff would just be transparent on this issue with the player base. Its not like the files aren't common knowledge from what it seems, so it doesn't seem like a legit reason to stay quiet about it aside from concerning your player base?

If there is a staff update and I missed it id appreciate if someone linked, simply interested in playing but this seems sketchy. Also surprised at the amount of people not concerned about their personal privacy.

Again, I pose the question: Why would the Dev's word be enough?

I'm not saying they shouldn't say anything (infact, I agree with out), but, I just don't see the logic of "if they say it's ok, then it's ok".

Not being concerned with privacy in general is not the same thing as not being concerned with every vague and non-specific claim that could probably apply to literally 99% of every program I have installed on my computer already from people with an axe to grind (not specifically the OP). JFC, I hope none of you have Chrome, Steam, or PunkBuster installed. Oh noes, they have my gateway IP!!!!!!11111 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this is a concern that is JUST coming to your attention, stay off "gray area" emulators in general or learn some basic compartmentalization.

[Sake]

Isn't a matter of ITS OK LETS GO! its more a matter of expressing what it does.

Sure that doesn't change if they say LOL ITS OK DONT WORRY that it still might not be safe. However when you hide things and try and sneak things in and aren't up front about it (granted the reason is partially understood but that cat is out of the bag now so should be irrelavent with the hacking) it poses the concern.

[Arrisard]

Originally Posted by Sake [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn't a matter of ITS OK LETS GO! its more a matter of expressing what it does.

Sure that doesn't change if they say LOL ITS OK DONT WORRY that it still might not be safe. However when you hide things and try and sneak things in and aren't up front about it (granted the reason is partially understood but that cat is out of the bag now so should be irrelavent with the hacking) it poses the concern.

Like I said, I actually agree. But ultimately it doesn't change anything - I just encourage anyone to be concerned with this in the first place to take some basic precautions even if they aren't playing on P99.

[Ihealyou]

Any program can open pretty much any file on your computer. Its something you learn in intro programming, not leet hacking school.

Now lets pretend that Rogean and Nilbog want to steal your personal info. They would have to go through hundreds of gigabytes of data, for each person, to find info which may or may not be there. Do that for the 20,000 accounts that play, and you have an unreasonable amount of data to sift through. Even if they could go through all that data, how are they supposed to separate personal information from random numbers and other garbage?

Now lets pretend that they found some way to get your personal information out of all that data. They're risking the end of the server, the destruction of their reputation, and probably legal action. They have a lot to lose if they try to steal your info. On the other hand, you have an anonymous pastebin chat log, of two anonymous people talking, in a manner which makes it sound staged. At the same time, there's over 300 pissed off nerds who got banned for hacking. They have nothing to lose by posting stuff like this.

So what seems more likely? Rogean and the crew are committing felonies to steal your infoz, or pissed off hackers are anonymously spreading false information to hurt the server?

[Ravhin]

Originally Posted by Davardo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To not be suspicious of someone over the internet having access to personal informationis being a moron. They should tell us what exactly the file can do. If they don't make some kind of statment, stickied, and on the front page, I will stop playing here.

I have to agree with this and with jetviper. From my past experience the server admins are reasonable people, conscientious of internet and security privacy concerns.

With the addition of custom, client-side code, I believe the only reasonable option is to release all client-side modifications as open-source, giving users the option to verify their contents as non-malicious, and compile themselves if desired. This is, after all, the guiding principle behind all security-oriented open source software (be it SSL libraries, crypto software, etc).

I have no problem playing with a client-side anti-cheat mechanism. However, to release code that conducts unknown data gathering on player's PCs and sends that information to a remote server, without announcing this change or the details of the information collected, is dangerous and unreasonable (and I suspect the server admins will agree with me here).

To catch these cheaters unawares I see why it wasn't announced in the first place. This will surely have gotten some people worried about the implications. However, correcting that 2-week gap with full disclosure will in large part remedy the problem.

I don't have the technical skills to look into the compiled code, and it would be ridiculous that we would have to. It's easy enough to dump strings though, and for all I know these could just be all the functions in the USER32/KERNEL32 libraries - but that's just the point, I don't know, I have no idea what they're being used for, and an announcement should be made clarifying this business.

Strings from wsock32.dll and eqgame.dll:

[[ Project 1999 :: Classic Everquest ]]
09:11:49
Sep  7 2007
10:33:37
Oct 31 2005
eqgame
\eqgame.ini
/rogean
list<T> too long
Please restart your client before playing a different server after Project 1999.
EQEmulator

GetProcessWindowStation
GetUserObjectInformationW
GetLastActivePopup
GetActiveWindow
MessageBoxW
USER32.DLL
KERNEL32.DLL
FlsFree
FlsSetValue
FlsGetValue
FlsAlloc
CorExitProcess
mscoree.dll
GetProcessWindowStation
GetUserObjectInformationW
GetLastActivePopup
GetActiveWindow
MessageBoxW
USER32.DLL
\WSOCK32.dll
eqgame.dll
AcceptEx
EnumProtocolsA
EnumProtocolsW
GetAcceptExSockaddrs
GetAddressByNameA
GetAddressByNameW
GetNameByTypeA
GetNameByTypeW
GetServiceA
GetServiceW
GetTypeByNameA
GetTypeByNameW
MigrateWinsockConfiguration
NPLoadNameSpaces
SetServiceA
SetServiceW
TransmitFile
GetSystemDirectoryA
GetProcAddress
LoadLibraryA
KERNEL32.dll
GetCurrentThreadId
DecodePointer
GetCommandLineA
TerminateProcess
GetCurrentProcess
GetFileType
GetStartupInfoW
GetTickCount
GetCurrentProcessId
GetSystemTimeAsFileTime
GetCPInfo
GetACP
GetOEMCP
WriteFile
GetModuleFileNameW

[EnderWiggin]

If you're worried about your info, there are simple solutions:

Install a second copy of your OS on your machine, only for EQ (on a separate partition/dual boot)

Get Windows Virtual PC, or XP Mode if you have Windows 7 Pro or above. Install the EQ client on that installation and do not put any personal info on it.

Problem solved.

Also, closing the server to handle "all the retards" is ridiculous and defeatist. It's like selling a car for gas money.

Also, ShowEQ (the poster) has twisted, justification-oriented logic. "You should let us cheat, because we're all cheaters, see?"

This server and community is awesome. If Project1999 shuts down, a new one will open. Guaranteed.

[EnderWiggin]

Originally Posted by Ravhin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe the only reasonable option is to [B]release all client-side modifications as open-source, giving users the option to verify their contents as non-malicious, and compile themselves if desired.

Ravhin, we might as well send out an email to all the EverQuest cheaters and say "come right in and hack me!"

Also, most users won't know what a single of those commands you listed is, and can only infer by the name. All of the ones I recognize are necessary for EverQuest to run, with or without added code by P1999.