Game Mechanics: Bards should be on same damage table as non-monk melee after the October 2001 patch

[Vivitron]

Bards should be on the same damage as all non-monk melee table after the October 2001 patch, but aren't on p99.

Evidence that they should be on the same damage table as other non-monk melee:

From the October 2001 patch notes:

Originally Posted by October 2001 Patch Notes

Bards are also being moved to the same combat table with all the other melee and hybrid classes (save monks who have separate tables after level 55).

Rich Waters' explanation of what the patch meant (via an Absor hosted q/a):

Originally Posted by Absor Introduces Rich Waters

[Rich Waters] was instrumental in figuring out what needed to be done and implementing the needed changes, so it's probably best that he be the one to answer questions about those changes.

Originally Posted by Rich Waters

Before level 51, paladins, shadowknights, and bards are all on the same damage table as warriors, and always have been. This patch, we changed it so that they remain on the same table all the way up to level 60. Just to make sure this is clear, here is a list of classes-

Pre-level 51 there are two damage tables, the "standard table" and the "high damage table"
1-50 Standard Table - Warrior, Rogue, Paladin, Shadowknight, Ranger, Bard
1-50 High Damage Table - Monk

Before this patch when characters hit level 51, some of them would move to a higher table. This is how things were prior to this latest melee patch.
51+ Standard Table - Paladin, Shadowknight, Bard
51+ High Damage Table - Monk, Warrior, Rogue, Ranger

With this patch, we added two new totally new damage tables, and moved classes around a bit. Here is how things are on live servers right now-
51+ Standard Table - No one.
51+ High Damage Table - Warrior, Rogue, Ranger, Paladin, Shadowknight, Bard
55+ Monk Table - Monk
60+ Monk Table - Monk

Also, please note that damage tables are not always a big damage increase. Moving from the standard table to the high damage table is a fairly large increase, but moving from the high damage table to the 55+ monk table is only a small increase.

Another important thing to know about damage tables is this - they only affect the amount of damage you do. Damage tables do not affect the chance to hit or miss a monster, your weapon skills, or anything except the amount of damage you do. Damage tables specifically affect your average damage per hit and how high your hardest hits can be.

Evidence that it isn't that way on p99:

I tested the max prime hand hits for level 60 max str, high +atk*, bards and (non-discipline) rogues with 15 damage piercers on the p99 green server:

Bard max hit with a 15 damage piercer prime hand: 92

Rogue max hit with a 15 damage piercer prime hand: 96

* I've had the bard attack buffed well beyond the level where you stop seeing max hit increases -- including procced avatar+procced bard epic+CoTP+SoN+McVaxius+VoG+worn AoB+worn Firefist, restulting in 1529 displayed atk. Still 92 max hit; still 4 short of a rogue with the same damage weapon.

[Vsai]

I used offhand damage to simplify the comparison. (otherwise, same controls as above)
Bard: 14 damage offhand weapon caps at 76
Rogue: 14 damage offhand weapon caps at 80

The OP is right. The damage table for bards is not the same as the rogues.

[Ennewi]

Bump

[Sonolin]

p99 hates bards GL

[Vsai]

Bump

[PurelyPurist]

I don't think it makes sense to have bards, essentially a caster hybrid with all types of utility songs, to be on the same damage table as Rogues: who's only job is melee DPS.

[Vsai]

Do you have any feelings about all the other hybrid casters on the list? I really want to make sure you're heard because that's what this thread is for.

[Vsai]

Most people understand a bug report is for aligning content to classic sources. Also double attack is the massive limitation on bard DPS. Every other hybrid gets it, bards don't as was intended in classic.

[Keebz]

Not to hijack, but while we're here, has anyone tested if knights got moved to the high damage table as well?

[PurelyPurist]

Originally Posted by Vsai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have any feelings about all the other hybrid casters on the list? I really want to make sure you're heard because that's what this thread is for.

No, because bards are the only hybrid caster. All other hybrids are hybrid melees.

Also, you must have a lot of friends. You sure come off as a friendly person.