Pet weapon questions

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hint: The problem with your thinking is you are assuming that you only duck misses. You can duck a 1% HP hit too.

Here is a simple scenario:
1. You want the charmed pet to be at 6% HP or less before breaking charm.
2. The mob attacking your charmed pet reduces 8% HP on a max hit.

If your charmed pet is at 10% HP, there are four possibilities when you start casting RoST:
1. A miss occurs (duck RoST)
2. A hit between 4% and 8% HP occurs (finish casting RoST)
3. A hit between 1% and 3% HP occurs (duck RoST)
4. A lucky double attack kills the pet (this would happen for GGR users too)

This strategy is worse. You'll lose the mob sometimes if you wait until 10% to cast RoST. For example:
1. Mob is at 15%
2. Mob takes a max hit, goes to 7%
3. You click RoST
4. Mob takes a max hit, dies

You'll lose the mob about 15% of the time with this approach, while the GGR user doesn't lose a single mob.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This strategy is worse. You'll lose the mob sometimes if you wait until 10% to cast RoST. For example:
1. Mob is at 15%
2. Mob takes a max hit, goes to 7%
3. You click RoST
4. Mob takes a max hit, dies

You'll lose the mob about 15% of the time with this approach, while the GGR user doesn't lose a single mob.

You are still missing the basic concept. This is why I've repeatedly asked you to read my posts.

I explained when to start casting RoST in the post you clearly ignored:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...0&postcount=71

If you know the mob's max hit reduces your charmed pet's HP by 8%, you would start casting RoST at 17% or higher. This is because an unlucky double attack of two max hits would reduce your charmed pet's HP by 16%

A GGR user would also start to watch for a break opportunity at 17% or higher for the same reason.

So lets go over the scenario:

1. You want the charmed pet to be at 6% HP or less before breaking charm.
2. The mob attacking your charmed pet reduces 8% HP on a max hit.

If your charmed pet is at 18% HP, there are three possibilities when you start casting RoST:
1. A miss occurs (duck RoST)
2. A hit between 1% and 8% HP occurs (duck RoST)
3. A lucky double attack does 12%-16% HP (finish casting RoST)

At this point you have started the RoST casting process. So let's do another round:

1. You want the charmed pet to be at 6% HP or less before breaking charm.
2. The mob attacking your charmed pet reduces 8% HP on a max hit.
3. You first started casting RoST when the charmed pet was at 18%. It took a max hit of 8%, and you ducked.

If your charmed pet is at 10% HP, there are four possibilities when you start casting RoST:
1. A miss occurs (duck RoST)
2. A hit between 4% and 8% HP occurs (finish casting RoST)
3. A hit between 1% and 3% HP occurs (duck RoST or let it finish)
4. A lucky double attack kills the pet (this would happen for GGR users too)

What you don't realize is the GGR user is in the same position as the RoST user if possibility 3 occurs.

For the GGR user, the mob is at 7%. They have to make a decision between combat rounds to break early, or risk the next combat round being a max hit. The RoST user is still casting invis when they see the charmed pet's HP at 7%, so they have the same opportunity to make the same decision as the GGR user. They can finish the cast and break early, or risk the next combat round being a max hit.

[bcbrown]

Let me be sure I understand your strategy. Is this right?

1. As soon as the lower-health mob gets to 18%, start casting RoST
2. If the next combat round results in the mob being at 10% or higher, duck and recast.

Is that right? Or are you choosing some threshold other than 10%?

With a max hit of 8% my strategy with GGR would be to click as soon as the mob gets to 9%

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let me be sure I understand your strategy. Is this right?

1. As soon as the lower-health mob gets to 18%, start casting RoST
2. If the next combat round results in the mob being at 10% or higher, duck and recast.

Is that right? Or are you choosing some threshold other than 10%?

With a max hit of 8% my strategy with GGR would be to click as soon as the mob gets to 9%

The answer to your question is in my last post. Can you please read even one of my posts completely before asking a question the previous post already answers?

You are either purposely wasting my time via trolling, or you are just not reading.

[Mortdecai99]

why dont you just root it, back your pet, and memblur it?

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The answer to your question is in my last post. Can you please read even one of my posts completely before asking a question the previous post already answers?

You are either purposely wasting my time via trolling, or you are just not reading.

Classic dsm. When put in a corner he will just accuse the other person of trolling and make them look like the bad ones even with the people who actually care to waste the time on his napkin math.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Mortdecai99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why dont you just root it, back your pet, and memblur it?

That is a strategy both GGR and RoST users have access to. That strategy does require extra mana and extra time to let the mob regenerate.

Someone who is trying to maximize kills per hour may not want to spend said time and mana. The entire discussion ultimately revolves around the idea that you break charm at a point where you can kill both mobs with a cheaper nuke, thus saving mana.

Spending mana on root and memblur would eat into those mana savings. Not saying the strategy should never be employed, as losing a mob would cost more time and mana in the long run.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is a strategy both GGR and RoST users have access to. That strategy does require extra mana and extra time to let the mob regenerate.

Someone who is trying to maximize kills per hour may not want to spend said time and mana. The entire discussion ultimately revolves around the idea that you break charm at a point where you can kill both mobs with a cheaper nuke, thus saving mana.

Spending mana on root and memblur would eat into those mana savings. Not saying the strategy should never be employed, as losing a mob would cost more time and mana in the long run.

Having ggr will let you break at 1 to 2% if you actually have skills and can react and use choke to finish a mob which is very efficient and low mana.

[bcbrown]

Ok, so I think the optimal strategy for RoST here would be to start casting at 18%, and duck until the the mob gets to 9%. The optimal strategy for GGR is to simply cast at 9%.

In that case, neither will lose any mobs, and both will result in an average mob health of about 6.5%. The RoST will average about 2.5 ducks per fight, and you'll need at least 5 ducks about 15% of the time, 10 ducks more than 1% of the time.

The benefit here is that the GGR can simply med until 9% and then stand and cast. Very simple, very easy. The RoST user on the other hand has to navigate a tricky timing dance - the cast time is 2 seconds, and a combat round is 3 seconds. If the mobs are evenly matched you need to monitor both mobs' health every combat round to see if either dropped to 9% or below.

The benefit of the GGR is you don't have to deal with all that ducking and monitoring for a bunch of combat rounds. You just wait until the mob hits your threshold and then click it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In that case, neither will lose any mobs, and both will result in an average mob health of about 6.5%.

You finally read some of my post! Thank you for admitting that you were wrong here.

GGR has no advantage here.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, so I think the optimal strategy for RoST here would be to start casting at 18%, and duck until the the mob gets to 9%. The optimal strategy for GGR is to simply cast at 9%.
...
The benefit here is that the GGR can simply med until 9% and then stand and cast.
...
monitoring for a bunch of combat rounds. You just wait until the mob hits your threshold and then click it.

This is another flaw in your thought process. Your charmed pet could go from 18% HP to 3% HP in one combat round if a double attack occurs, and a max hit reduces your charmed pet's HP by 8%.

Both GGR and RoST users need to start watching for break opportunities at the same health percentage range.

There is no method by which a GGR user can guarantee the mob will be at 9% HP every time. The only reason why you can use 17% or 18% HP as a rough threshold is because a max damage double attack would reduce 16% of the charmed pet's HP in our example.

GGR has no advantage here.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The RoST user on the other hand has to navigate a tricky timing dance - the cast time is 2 seconds, and a combat round is 3 seconds.

Either you duck a few spell casts with RoST, or you are forced to retarget with GGR. Neither are tricky. This is a preference choice. If you want to claim ducking a few times per kill will objectively get you less kills per hour than retargeting, provide the evidence for your positive claim please.

GGR has no advantage here.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

can simply med

Can a GGR user get a few med ticks in theory? Sure, I have already granted that in this thread. In reality most players do not closely monitor server ticks, and are often wasting meditate ticks for a variety of reasons.

GGR has a theoretical minor advantage here for extremely hardcore players, the kind who sit every 6 seconds while running.

At the end, we have one theoretical advantage with GGR of a few med ticks. You compare that to the RoST advantages:

1. You can pretarget while RoST is casting.
2. It acts as your invis item, so you don't need to mem invis.
3. You don't need multiple inventory slots used for GGR + invis item(s).

Like most players, I am not frenetically watching the server tick to get every possible med tick. I'd take the objective advantages RoST offers over a few theoretical med ticks GGR could provide.