Claw of Lightning is disappointing (ranger)

[Snaggles]

In the offhand? While the attack is really nice, 15/25 is worse than 13/21 so the CoL is generally considered an upgrade outside hover-swapping.

I’d speculate on MH and general combos but they are just hunches and I’m certain to get spiked hard by those who actually play the class [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. I still need to do some more ranger parse combos. Maybe next week.

[bcbrown]

To celebrate getting a Swiftblade of Zek and completing my tunnelquest weapon collection, I did some parses. I had three goals: 1) Determine if SBoZ is an upgrade over Fellspine's Tail, and get a sense of the ranking of my weapons; 2) Try to see if there's any scenarios where comparing a low-level target (Bloodmaw) against a raid-level target (Shady Swashbuckler) results in a different order in the rankings; 3) Investigate whether the Call of Fire proc rate is different from weapon procs.


First I did some short parses with all my weapons against Shady to get a lay of the land

Weapon, time in seconds, DPS, hit %
bfg no disc      95    29.48    72.06%
bfg with disc    101   44.91    71.62%
fellspine        96    23.51    67.66%
rev whip         93    23.55    71.36%
swarmcaller      95    16.43    61.70%
wurmy            86    21.31    65.79%
zek              90    23.01    66.87%

I was surprised by how good the BFG is. Even without disc it does substantial damage. Also a little surprised that fellspine/rev whip/swiftblade of zek were so similar. But 90-second parses are going to be noisy as hell, after all.

Next I ran some longer parses against Bloodmaw. I was running 9 minute parses because I didn't want Call of Fire to fade; I'll get to procs in a bit. For the rest of the parses I'm showing both time in minutes and time in seconds.

bloodmaw_bfg_disc      0:02:06    126    102.23   88.27%    
bloodmaw_bfg_no_disc   0:08:49    529    72.36    89.74%    
bloodmaw_fellspine     0:09:48    588    59.80    94.59%    
bloodmaw_fellspine2    0:09:02    542    63.26    94.79%    
bloodmaw_infestation   0:09:02    542    68.53    95.12%    
bloodmaw_rev_whip      0:08:18    498    63.08    97.90%    
bloodmaw_wurmy         0:09:29    569    65.75    95.13%    
bloodmaw_zek           0:07:22    442    74.49    93.70%

It's impossible to run longer tests for BFG with disc, but it's the clear winner. I accidentally parsed Fellspine's Tail twice, but that usefully shows just how much impact RNG can have even on 8-9 minute parses. Zek is pulling away, and a I'm little surprised that the Wurmslayer performed as well as it did.

Next I went back to Shady for some longer fights. They're still super short, but I can't quite kill Shady without in-fight healing, which would obviously throw off the DPS calculations without careful data cleaning. For both SBoZ and Fellspine's Tail I forgot to buff with Greater Wolf Form for parse 2.

shady_fellspine     0:01:28    88     24.82    83.41%
shady_fellspine2    0:02:02    122    20.21    82.62%
shady_fellspine3    0:01:47    107    20.02    83.71%
shady_fellspine4    0:01:41    101    21.21    82.35%
shady_fellspine5    0:01:17    77     21.40    78.97%
                    0:08:15    495    21.38    82.31%
                
shady_zek      0:01:01    61     25.72    78.29%
shady_zek2     0:02:03    123    22.99    83.79%
shady_zek3     0:01:43    103    26.85    81.89%
shady_zek4     0:01:40    100    29.76    87.28%
shady_zek5     0:01:04    64     21.41    78.29%
               0:07:31    451    25.52    82.59%

Seems clear enough that SBoZ is an upgrade over Fellspine's Tail. Snaggles was getting 47-48 DPS against Shady, but he had 91% haste and I only have 40% haste. If I had 91% haste I'd be getting over 34 DPS. A clear gap in performance, which makes sense when comparing raid-geared level 60 against tunnel-geared level 57, but I'm encouraged that I'm still able to do some decent damage.


One question I was curious about was if Call of Fire procs at a similar rate to weapon procs. I had about 143 dex. This table shows the total Call of Fire per weapon-set with Procs-Per-Minute, plus the weapon-specific procs for the Fellspine and Infestation

bloodmaw_bfg_disc       2    0.95        
bloodmaw_bfg_no_disc    7    0.79        
bloodmaw_fellspine     25    2.55    10    1.02
bloodmaw_fellspine2    28    3.09    20    2.21
bloodmaw_infestation   28    3.09    12    1.32
bloodmaw_rev_whip      13    1.56        
bloodmaw_wurmy         25    2.63        
bloodmaw_zek           12    1.62       
Total excluding BFG    131   2.47

Sure looks like Call of Fire procs ~50% more often than weapon procs. Also looks like it doesn't proc with BFG. Eventually I'll do a longer parse with just BFG without Swiftwind to confirm. At 10-30 procs per cast, that's 650-1950 damage per cast, or 13-39 DPM.


Conclusions:
* When compared to tunnel weapons, BFG is really good even without Trueshot
* Swiftblade of Zek is a clear upgrade over my other weapons
* At 50-100pp, Fellspine's Tail is a great value
* Excluding procs, Infestation and Revultant Whip are comparable to Fellspine's Tail
* Call of Fire procs more often than weapon procs, perhaps 50% more

[Snaggles]

Great stuff!

I used a BFG and Zek blade a long time, it’s a solid setup depending on what you need (and if the thing is rooted/fleeing or not). Plus as you showed, it’s more than a meme…with a little luck you can surprise people.

I need use Call of Fire more. With a 2h and the jolt mana it seems like no brainer if the thing won’t kill you instantly on a flip (blue cons).

[Goregasmic]

Good work, nice to see all the options side by side. Too bad the planks are pretty much dried out.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

* At 50-100pp, Fellspine's Tail is a great value
* Excluding procs, Infestation and Revultant Whip are comparable to Fellspine's Tail

I was kind of eyeing Fayguard Parrying Dagger. If fellspine's tail is alright I'm pretty sure the dagger would do good even though it is piercing.

Also:

Why did Call of fire proc less on rev whip and SBOZ if other weapons have similar delay? Wurmy was in the 20s bracket even though it has like 2.5x the delay. Just bad rng?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good work, nice to see all the options side by side. Too bad the planks are pretty much dried out.

I bought mine in the tunnel this summer for something like 15-17k. I was chatting with someone while doing the Shady tests who had one banked, but I think I convinced him to roll a ranger. As a side note, one of the benefits of parsing against Shady is all the double-takes from people zoning in from N Ro. If you find one for sale and you're enjoying playing the ranger I think it's well worth jumping on it.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was kind of eyeing Fayguard Parrying Dagger. If fellspine's tail is alright I'm pretty sure the dagger would do good even though it is piercing.

Ooh, I might have to go get one of those, looks fun even if the proc kinda sucks. I'd also love to eventually grab a Steel Hilted Flint Dagger and a Paebala Warbone. The Fellspine proc is super good, although I didn't include procs in my dps analysis. 100 damage and a 50-point Jolt.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why did Call of fire proc less on rev whip and SBOZ if other weapons have similar delay? Wurmy was in the 20s bracket even though it has like 2.5x the delay. Just bad rng?

I think pure rng. If you look at the two Fellspine parses against Bloodmaw one has 10 weapon procs and one has 20. 8 minutes is just far too little time for a process that fires at most 2-3 times per minute. And point of note, proc rates should be independent of weapon delay.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I bought mine in the tunnel this summer for something like 15-17k. I was chatting with someone while doing the Shady tests who had one banked, but I think I convinced him to roll a ranger. As a side note, one of the benefits of parsing against Shady is all the double-takes from people zoning in from N Ro. If you find one for sale and you're enjoying playing the ranger I think it's well worth jumping on it.

yeah I've seen one for 10k but I was broke back then [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Getting that dragon wing or whatever in WW seemed also tricky at the time.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ooh, I might have to go get one of those, looks fun even if the proc kinda sucks. I'd also love to eventually grab a Steel Hilted Flint Dagger and a Paebala Warbone. The Fellspine proc is super good, although I didn't include procs in my dps analysis. 100 damage and a 50-point Jolt.

Wow looks like I overlooked the the fellspine's tail proc. I need to change my practice 1hs, rocking a lackluster defiance right now but it did the trick. Paebala warbone is nice for the illusion but all in all I think I'd rather take the 1 extra delay for the better proc on Sarnak Lightning Caller that I got in chardok, seems like a decent offhand for tanking until I get something better. I was always curious about the Steel Hilted Flint Dagger but the camp looks miserable and I don't have a loose 10k for toys right now but I'm really curious. My spade is working nicely right now so 1handers have been kind of low on the priority list until I get to the 50s and even then...

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think pure rng. If you look at the two Fellspine parses against Bloodmaw one has 10 weapon procs and one has 20. 8 minutes is just far too little time for a process that fires at most 2-3 times per minute. And point of note, proc rates should be independent of weapon delay.

Yeah figured as much when I saw that weapon proc rate discrepancy.

[Snaggles]

Planks aren’t cheap but if someone really loves their ranger it’s a great tool at any price (it’s not like buying Beads at least). Casually geared it will at least double your dps and even with all the tricks is still a 30% ish boost. There are just some fights that you will never bump.

Did you use Tolan arrows, bcbrown? Fletching to be able to make 8’s is really nice. It’s about the same dps bump as Avatar. My best parse with Avatar has been 117dps on Velk.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah I've seen one for 10k but I was broke back then [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Getting that dragon wing or whatever in WW seemed also tricky at the time.

I was talking with someone selling them for 10k, but I waited too long and they sold their last one before I was ready. So when I saw one in the tunnel I immediately pulled the trigger. The dragon wing is a pain but luckily my guild does 6 necks often enough and were happy to help me out. I wasn't sure if it'd be worth it but Snaggles convinced me and I'm a convert. Even without the noticeable dps boost it's just cool to have. I like trying to click the knockback effect when someone's trying to hammer off me. You've got ten seconds to proc the hammer or you're going flying backwards! I feel similarly about the AoN I won; even without any practical benefit it's cool as hell to have and I wouldn't sell it for anything, even though I could use the plat.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow looks like I overlooked the the fellspine's tail proc. I need to change my practice 1hs, rocking a lackluster defiance right now but it did the trick. Paebala warbone is nice for the illusion but all in all I think I'd rather take the 1 extra delay for the better proc on Sarnak Lightning Caller that I got in chardok, seems like a decent offhand for tanking until I get something better. I was always curious about the Steel Hilted Flint Dagger but the camp looks miserable and I don't have a loose 10k for toys right now but I'm really curious. My spade is working nicely right now so 1handers have been kind of low on the priority list until I get to the 50s and even then...

Fellspine's Tail is definitely worth the 50-100pp price, snap one up if you see it. But until Swiftwind I'm pretty sure the shovel's gonna be top DPS for you. I sold my Woodsman's or I'd have included it in my parses. I had a defiance but I literally sold it while setting up for the parses. Someone wanted it to pair with a Venemous Axe and I was happy it was going to someone who would use it. Paebala would purely be a fun toy for grind groups with enough dps to afford suboptimal weapon choices. I'm jealous of that Sarnak Lightning Caller, though. Did you faction your ranger or did you drag your corpse down? Another nodrop I've got my eye on is Wind Saber.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you use Tolan arrows, bcbrown? Fletching to be able to make 8’s is really nice. It’s about the same dps bump as Avatar. My best parse with Avatar has been 117dps on Velk.

Yeah, that was all with Tolan arrows. I forgot to mention but a full Trueshot discipline is just under 4 stacks at 40% haste. So the BFG is hungry but not ravenous for arrows. I've got fletching up to silver arrows, so I should fletch something for big fights. I've also got a half-stack of Gloomwater Arrows I'm slowly accumulating; that'll be fun to blow on a fight some time.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fellspine's Tail is definitely worth the 50-100pp price, snap one up if you see it. But until Swiftwind I'm pretty sure the shovel's gonna be top DPS for you. I sold my Woodsman's or I'd have included it in my parses. I had a defiance but I literally sold it while setting up for the parses. Someone wanted it to pair with a Venemous Axe and I was happy it was going to someone who would use it. Paebala would purely be a fun toy for grind groups with enough dps to afford suboptimal weapon choices. I'm jealous of that Sarnak Lightning Caller, though. Did you faction your ranger or did you drag your corpse down? Another nodrop I've got my eye on is Wind Saber.

Yeah I factionned the ranger, it is ~8 stacks of skins so about 2k. Parked him there and got him 2 HGLs, the hammer, the slick leather courier's cape (not great but decent), a sarnak war bow and a sarnak earring of station also dropped in the meantime. Good investment.

Yeah I've thought about windsaber but according to the comments that thing is a ~1% drop rate in a difficult camp. Gonna pull a ripkozo here and say it is probably faster and less of a hassle to just get a war bow of rallos zek or a bow of the destroyer, settle for a huntsman or buy exquisite. Haven't really ran the numbers on bows, haven't been bowing much outside of pulls or being in trouble.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I Yeah, that was all with Tolan arrows. I forgot to mention but a full Trueshot discipline is just under 4 stacks at 40% haste. So the BFG is hungry but not ravenous for arrows. I've got fletching up to silver arrows, so I should fletch something for big fights. I've also got a half-stack of Gloomwater Arrows I'm slowly accumulating; that'll be fun to blow on a fight some time.

Very nice. Yea I generally always have 5-6 stacks on me to get through a Disc. I used to keep summoning them and would keep on the cursor. Gloom’s would be a blast lol.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I factionned the ranger, it is ~8 stacks of skins so about 2k. Parked him there and got him 2 HGLs, the hammer, the slick leather courier's cape (not great but decent), a sarnak war bow and a sarnak earring of station also dropped in the meantime. Good investment.

Yeah I've thought about windsaber but according to the comments that thing is a ~1% drop rate in a difficult camp. Gonna pull a ripkozo here and say it is probably faster and less of a hassle to just get a war bow of rallos zek or a bow of the destroyer, settle for a huntsman or buy exquisite. Haven't really ran the numbers on bows, haven't been bowing much outside of pulls or being in trouble.

The Sarnak bow is great. I expect the Windsaber isn’t worth the effort if you have that already.

I have a Dagarn bow but it’s really only good for a few things; I kill Lucan with it since every hit is pretty much damage bonus-only. I expect it would be great for PVP or other very short fights. The best mix of ratio and damage bonus are the Exquisite/Priceless/Primal bows. The War Bow of RZ has 180 range and an aggro proc; I expect due to the speed while more efficient per shot it’s less dps. Similar to a Windstriker.

That’s really the spread of bows…fast under the current 2h damage bonus deliver dps but no sustainability. Slow ones efficiency but poor dps; I expect a Windstriker will put down the most damage in a longer time period since arrows are finite. With a shaker and raid buffs Ive done 40-45dps on a glimmer drake or Zlexak with Tolan arrows and an Exquisite. About 90 on a glimmer with Trueshot. In limited testing I’ve never seen the Dagarn pop 100 dps but testing it is a literal pain so I can’t be certain.