Claw of Lightning or Rogue Epic for offhand?

[zelld52]

You will gain more DPS by just wearing the +40 ATK in your offhand rather than swapping it in for backstabs. +40 attack is a gigantic increase in attack. Only time not to wear the rogue epic is on lower level mobs.

[kjs86z2]

and on lower level mobs who cares

just use your damn epic

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really! Wow so the ragebringer is totally worth getting it sounds like. So what would Ragebringer primary, Vyemm's Fang secondary bring?!

There's 3 points of comparison when evaluating a rogue mainhand. DMG, ratio, and delay. DMG determines maximum backstab cap. Higher is better. Ratio (dmg/del) determines average damage over time with melee swings. Higher is better. Delay determines how often the damage bonus is applied with melee swings. Lower is better.

Vyemm's Fang: It has a moderately high backstab value (13), very high ratio (0.764), and very low delay (17). Grade: B / S / S

Ragebringer: It has a very high backstab value (15), moderately high ratio (0.600), and very high delay (25). Grade: S / B / D

Mrylokar's Dagger of Vengeance: It has a very high backstab value (15), very high ratio (0.789), and low delay (19). Grade: S / S / A

So, in mainhand, Vyemm's Fang will vastly outperform Ragebringer in terms of melee hits and perform closely in backstabs. There's no situation where Rage mainhand makes sense in that combination. I would advise you to ignore weapon swapping for backstab advice (These people are not experienced rogues from an accredited institution) and use Mrylokar or Vyemm + Epic. Just focus on positioning, your hp, and watching for enrage.

The Rage + Claw combo got hated on by Green players, but it's what I ran on Blue and I did fine for a casual Velious raider. You want a Primal spear and the above setup for the best damage if you're a serious raider.

[Dundrige]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's 3 points of comparison when evaluating a rogue mainhand. DMG, ratio, and delay. DMG determines maximum backstab cap. Higher is better. Ratio (dmg/del) determines average damage over time with melee swings. Higher is better. Delay determines how often the damage bonus is applied with melee swings. Lower is better.

Vyemm's Fang: It has a moderately high backstab value (13), very high ratio (0.764), and very low delay (17). Grade: B / S / S

Ragebringer: It has a very high backstab value (15), moderately high ratio (0.600), and very high delay (25). Grade: S / B / D

Mrylokar's Dagger of Vengeance: It has a very high backstab value (15), very high ratio (0.789), and low delay (19). Grade: S / S / A

So, in mainhand, Vyemm's Fang will vastly outperform Ragebringer in terms of melee hits and perform closely in backstabs. There's no situation where Rage mainhand makes sense in that combination. I would advise you to ignore weapon swapping for backstab advice (These people are not experienced rogues from an accredited institution) and use Mrylokar or Vyemm + Epic. Just focus on positioning, your hp, and watching for enrage.

The Rage + Claw combo got hated on by Green players, but it's what I ran on Blue and I did fine for a casual Velious raider. You want a Primal spear and the above setup for the best damage if you're a serious raider.

One last question...

Another item I've been looking at for my secondary is Braid of Golden Hair since they go pretty cheap... So Vyemm Fang + Braid of Golden Hair. Would that be better or worse than Vyemm Fang + Epic?

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One last question...

Another item I've been looking at for my secondary is Braid of Golden Hair since they go pretty cheap... So Vyemm Fang + Braid of Golden Hair. Would that be better or worse than Vyemm Fang + Epic?

Worse. Braid does not have +40 Attack, despite a better ratio - its still offhand so you dont get a swing each round anyway.

Experienced rogues always tell people to keep the epic equipped in offhand permanently because it has a stackable, worn 40 attack on it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One last question...

Another item I've been looking at for my secondary is Braid of Golden Hair since they go pretty cheap... So Vyemm Fang + Braid of Golden Hair. Would that be better or worse than Vyemm Fang + Epic?

Braid offhand will probably be worse due to the loss of the +40 ATK from Ragebringer, assuming the DoT from Braid is resisted. My DPS calculator shows a loss of 2 or 3 DPS without the DoT compared to Ragebringer in offhand. With the the DoT it makes up for that loss. I wouldn't rely on the DoT, especially when raiding.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One last question...

Another item I've been looking at for my secondary is Braid of Golden Hair since they go pretty cheap... So Vyemm Fang + Braid of Golden Hair. Would that be better or worse than Vyemm Fang + Epic?

They go cheaply for a reason. It's kinda neat, but not really practical for a rogue offhand. Your epic's +40 ATK boosts everything on both hands and backstabs.

[Snaggles]

Yea braid is a weird offhand. You don’t really get the function of a Vyemm whip or another different functional weapon. For dps it’s ok but most stuff in a rogues offhand is passable. The stats and attack on the epic is hard to pass up. The claw still isn’t a landslide win and the ratio on that is crazy.

If you are seeing enough Tunare’s for the braid you are seeing enough for the Thorn. Just save your points for that or the fang, imho (disclaimer: I’m not a rogue).

[Dundrige]

Thank you all so much for all the help. Really appreciate it!

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are seeing enough Tunare’s for the braid you are seeing enough for the Thorn. Just save your points for that or the fang, imho (disclaimer: I’m not a rogue).

Yeah, the thorn is nice, but when I play with my brother we depend a lot on root for aggro. With that in mind, a DD that breaks root doesn't seem like a smart play, right?

[Cecily]

Yep. That's a potential disadvantage, and the proc makes it harder to control agro. If fires off a few times when you start meleeing, it'll be an unexpected spike similar to a backstab. There's certainly ways around that. Any class with root has better spells to hold agro than root. If you're using it as a CC, stop hitting the thing rooted and it's fine. Otherwise the thorn is a viable alternative to Vyemm or Mrylo. It doesn't perform as well, but it's real competitive when the 15 dmg hits get lucky.