Claw of Lightning or Rogue Epic for offhand?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You intentionally introduced errors to your validations in order to... catch people trying to confirm the validations? Or are you blaming "the trolls" for why the validations have errors?

It's ok to just admit a mistake. Looks like you did those validations before you fixed the incorrect treatment of the case of dual wielding when the offhand has lower delay than mainhand. And then you didn't re-validate after changing that, so you missed the now-incorrect calculator input for fist-weaving with IFS.

I already told you. For simplicities sake I set Corudoth to autoscale, so first time users would have one less thing they needed to worry about.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Corudoth Parses are also a bit high because I used the autoscaling feature for a level 5. This was for simplicity, to avoid uncessary errors for new users.

I was hoping someone would ask about it, because that means they actually used the calculator correctly. Good job!

Did you test the validations with my instructions? You keep waffling between claiming you are uninterested in my calculator, while simultaneously trying to claim it doesn't work at every possible turn. I already tested them again with my instructions, they are correct.

It is ok to admit you were wrong about my DPS calculator.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just as a quick note, the DPS calculations in my previous post did not have backstab double attack. I realized I forgot to push the absolute latest code. That is fixed now. The DPS ratios between the weapons wouldn't really change, the numbers will just go up.

Here is Ragebringer and Fang with backstab double attack and without dual wield. The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 109 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 110 DPS with Backstab.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab.

It looks like the lower Backstab damage from Fang is offsetting Fang's better autoattack DPS. Ragebringer does do significantly more backstab damage. It looks like Ragebringer is doing around 80k damage via backstab, vs 45k damage via Vyemm Fang against the level 50 mob.

This is probably why swapping Ragebringer to mainhand for backstabs is a good idea when using Fang. I can't imagine the small loss in autoattack DPS from the swap would offset the higher backstabs.

Thank you for the numbers. How much did adding double backstabs improve the numbers for the dual wield set ups? Comparing the primary to dual wield as it stands makes it look like even a bis secondary only adds like 10% dps?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you for the numbers. How much did adding double backstabs improve the numbers for the dual wield set ups? Comparing the primary to dual wield as it stands makes it look like even a bis secondary only adds like 10% dps?

No problem! I can show you some parses with everything.

The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base. No duelist during the fight:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 143.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 153 DPS with Double Backstabs.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 96.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 97 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 95.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 99 DPS with Double Backstabs.

[Duik]

Prolifically wrong.

Imma use that in my next meeting with HR.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's great to include logs and essential to include the exact input to the calculator, which you did, but it would be much more convenient to list for each parse the measured DPS and the calculated DPS.

I was curious if I could replicate your results and when I used the listed inputs to the most recent version of the calculator I got these results:

Sznake vs. Eldak Howlingbear - Epic Fist + Stave of Shielding
552 seconds, 30.28 DPS
Calculator: 30.20, 30.95, 31.77, 31.68, 31.15
Conclusion: High by about 0.5 DPS

Sznake vs. Mentrax Mountainbone - Imbued Fighters Staff
553 seconds, 27.5 DPS (without fistweaving)
Calculator: 39.86, 40.14, 37.99, 37.71, 42.70
Conclusion: I must have made a mistake here? This is way off.

Bazgek vs. Corudoth - Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge
531 seconds, 70.25 DPS
Calculator: 78.65, 75.46, 73.99, 76.53, 76.26
Conclusion: Calculator is high by 5-6 DPS

Bazgek vs. Corudoth - Frostwrath
603 seconds, 64.9 DPS
Calculator: 70.50, 72.67, 73.96, 71.73, 74.39
Conclusion: Calculator is high by 5-7 DPS

Shamwowi vs. Mentrax Mountainbone - Blight, Hammer of the Scourge
3.23 DoT DPS + 2.9 White Damage DPS = 6.13 DPS
Calculator: 7.06, 6.70, 6.66, 6.37, 6.51
Conclusion: Calculator is high by about 0.5 DPS

Shamwowi vs. Corudoth - Spear of Fate
355 seconds, 32.7 DPS
Calculator: 30.8, 30.24, 31.10, 31.74, 32.17
Conclusion: Calculator is low by about 1 DPS

Does this look correct to you? For the calculator results I reran 5 times and listed the output of "Attacker Predicted Total DPS" each time.

I updated the validation sets for easier use. That will fix the IFS and Corudoth parses. I also added in the Monk Corudoth parse.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q-6...usp=drive_link

I apologize for being a bit snappy yesterday, and I do appreciate Bcbrown doing the validation tests. It is simply frustrating when people keep making baseless claims about my calculator over and over without using it. It is good to see Bcbrown has learned to use it.

[Dundrige]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No problem! I can show you some parses with everything.

The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base. No duelist during the fight:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 143.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 153 DPS with Double Backstabs.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 96.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 97 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 95.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 99 DPS with Double Backstabs.

Really! Wow so the ragebringer is totally worth getting it sounds like. So what would Ragebringer primary, Vyemm's Fang secondary bring?!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really! Wow so the ragebringer is totally worth getting it sounds like. So what would Ragebringer primary, Vyemm's Fang secondary bring?!

Yeah Ragebringer is great, and the cheapest Epic to get too.

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Vyemm Fang Secondary = 144.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.


Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Vyemm Fang Secondary = 96 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

It's going to be slightly worse than Claw offhand, as Claw of Lightning has a slightly better ratio.

[Duik]

All I keep seeing is someone is desperate for validation.

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really! Wow so the ragebringer is totally worth getting it sounds like. So what would Ragebringer primary, Vyemm's Fang secondary bring?!

Not a Hot take, but use Vyemms primary and RB secondary.

I used to play rogue back in the day, and the idea is that most raid mobs have high AC and you won't be landing many max hits on them anyway - so you use the faster weapon in main hand. Vyemm's has 13 damage and only 17 delay, so you get pretty high backstabs - and you get a very fast weapon for lots of swings per round.

Ragebringer is a must for any high-level target. You simply cannot replace the +40 worn ATK that comes with it.

The worn ATK is much less significant if you're fighting lower level targets - but on raid targets, anything level 60 or higher, you want to Stackickus Attackickus.

[WarpathEQ]

Yeah moral of the story you're never done using the rogue epic as the +ATK boost is always valuable, once you obtain a better primary weapon you will swap in the epic for backstabs generally.

I believe the only weapons that are worth main handing over the epic are (room for debate):
Doze Dagger
Vyemm Fang
Vulak Dagger

With the first 2 generally swapping epic into your main hand for backstabs, and the latter swapping epic into offhand for backstabs (since it already has 15dmg primary, and swapping out offhand should have less impact on overall DPS).