Myconid Spore King - Monk Solo

Zuranthium · #1 07-11-2025, 08:46 PM

Obvious alt account is obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summers_Light [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont know what drugs this guy is on, but pretty much every person that has posted in this thread has been in support of sscalez, not you.

Wrong. A bunch of people have posted saying outside buffs shouldn't be allowed for melee as the highest tier description, and nobody is "not in support" of what he did in his video.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if melees weren't competing very much even when they were allowed to have buffs, then why are you so against them being allowed buffs now?

Velious gear and the 2hander damage increase is a huge buff for melee. But even if it wasn't, that's irrelevant to the question of "what is the best a class can do with no outside buffs and no consumables".

Anyone is ALLOWED to have buffs in the challenge system. It is simply a DIFFERENT TIER of accomplishment.

Regarding balance, you don't seem to realize what a big advantage Monks have in a world where Lull is coded classically, which the p99 devs have said will be implemented at some point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've already suggested that we make a poll and see what the vast majority of the active EQ population thinks, but you seem to ignore this every time I bring it up... why is that?

Polls are manipulated. People who care to have an opinion should speak up. And people have in this thread. The community wants a "no outside buffs/consumables" tier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the whole point of the solo challenge is to provide a set of parameters for people to challenge themselves against

That's exactly what the updated tiers incentivize.

The point is to try and see how far each class can get with each encounter. It's not a competition of trying to be an S+ Monk vs an S+ Enchanter.

If someone wants to "beat" the accomplishments of an Enchanter who has done 10 S+ God Mode kills, they need to play an Enchanter themselves and do 11 S+ God Mode kills. Just as the Enchanter player would also need to play Monk themselves if they want to "beat" the record of a Monk player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The whole point of having rules in the first place is to try to make it as fair and balanced across the board as possible.

It needs to be fair and balanced in the sense of recognizing the different ways to kill a MOB. Doing it without no outside buffs/consumables is a factual tier. If that is not recognized, then it's inherently not fair.

What it does NOT need to do, and can never do, is try to balance things between classes. What people need to focus on doing is pushing each class to its maximize, in whichever tier they are interested in doing that.

God Mode kills by melee are possible without outside/buffs consumables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's been maybe 1 other person besides you and Samoht that have tried to claim "buffs mean you weren't solo".

There are more than that, but it's irrelevant to the discussion. And it's an indisputable fact (for anyone with a working brain) that an outside buff is increasing the power of a character beyond what they could otherwise do, and contributing the same amount of DPS/Healing with that buff as if the other player was directly adding that amount during combat.

The challenge page is not giving a definition of the word "solo" in a simple binary Yes-or-No answer. It's describing many different categories of doing encounters in EQ. Different peoples' opinions will align with different tiers of what they would consider a "solo". The challenge page recognizes them all.

Stryker85 · #2 07-12-2025, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A bunch of people have posted saying outside buffs shouldn't be allowed for melee as the highest tier description

If you can show me LEGITIMATE posts from "a bunch" of people saying that they think outside buffs shouldn't be allowed for melee as the highest tier, then I will stop arguing completely and admit defeat, and you can just impose your will as the Solo Artist Challenge dictator, who doesn't even play EQ anymore. But I think you and I both know that you won't be able to do that. There's been literally ONE SINGLE other person in this entire thread that held the same opinions as you and Samoht. One person is not "a bunch" or even close to a majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's irrelevant to the question of "what is the best a class can do with no outside buffs and no consumables".

You are the only one insisting that this is the sole purpose of the challenge. To me the purpose of the challenge is for every class to have a set of parameters to compete under that challenges them to complete kills with the most difficult circumstances possible for their class. For melee classes, the most difficult circumstances that they can actually kill a god tier mob under, is buffed with no consumables. There is a reason why NO MELEE has EVER completed a god mode kill without buffs and no consumables, because its literally impossible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regarding balance, you don't seem to realize what a big advantage Monks have in a world where Lull is coded classically, which the p99 devs have said will be implemented at some point.

Alright now you lost me, what the hell are you even talking about now?? What would lull coding have anything to do with monks? I'm dying to hear this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Polls are manipulated. People who care to have an opinion should speak up. And people have in this thread. The community wants a "no outside buffs/consumables" tier.

That's real convenient coming from someone that claims everyone agrees with you, but yet can't show any proof of that what-so-ever. When challenged with a way to prove who the player base really sides with, you come up with this lame ass excuse. We can use a discord poll in the UN or p99 general channel. How do you expect that to be "manipulated" exactly? I'll be surprised if you even make an attempt to answer this, because you know this is a ridiculous excuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's exactly what the updated tiers incentivize.
The point is to try and see how far each class can get with each encounter. It's not a competition of trying to be an S+ Monk vs an S+ Enchanter.
If someone wants to "beat" the accomplishments of an Enchanter who has done 10 S+ God Mode kills, they need to play an Enchanter themselves and do 11 S+ God Mode kills. Just as the Enchanter player would also need to play Monk themselves if they want to "beat" the record of a Monk player.

That is just your prerogative and you trying to impose your will for what YOUR vision of the challenge should be, but guess what? It's not just up to you. It's up to everyone that actually plays this game. And I can guarantee you that there are more people that would prefer a balanced ruleset that doesn't gatekeep melee from ever achieving the top rank possible. If you think only casters should be able to achieve an S+ Rank, then why even include melee in the competition at all? What's the point of having a rank that only 1 subset of classes can achieve? Under that logic, melee should have their own competition. That would be stupid and unnecessary though when the rules can be structured to accommodate melee too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It needs to be fair and balanced in the sense of recognizing the different ways to kill a MOB. Doing it without no outside buffs/consumables is a factual tier. If that is not recognized, then it's inherently not fair.

What it does NOT need to do, and can never do, is try to balance things between classes. What people need to focus on doing is pushing each class to its maximize, in whichever tier they are interested in doing that.

Again, this is just your opinion that you're trying to force on the rest of us. The original creator of the challenge did not agree with that mindset at all. That was the whole reason why melee were allowed to have buffs to begin with, and why there was no stipulation for no consumables at the top rank, because he understood that melee would never be able to compete for that rank otherwise. Melees either need buffs, or they need consumables, they cannot kill anything past the grandmaster tier without both.

I agree that there should be a place to recognize a no consumable kill, which is why when I made the changes attempting to compromise with you, I edited the S+ rank to be either self buffs only OR no consumables. This allows melee to compete for the top rank under the hardest conditions possible for their class, which is the whole point of the ranking system.

You just conceded earlier in one of your recent posts that "Completing an encounter at S- tier with a certain class could be comparatively more impressive than doing it at S+ tier with another class." If that's the case and a kill like this which has never been done IS considered to be more impressive, rarer, and harder to achieve, then why do you think it deserves a lesser rank than a class that's done it numerous times already and can do it with relative ease in comparison?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

God Mode kills by melee are possible without outside/buffs consumables.

Ohh, is that why its literally NEVER been done before by ANY melee toon EVER? Something tells me you have never played a melee character at level 60, much less tried to solo anything difficult with it. Please show me ANY evidence what-so-ever of any melee character EVER killing a god tier mob without buffs OR consumables... you can't. Its never been done and never will be done... because its 100% impossible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Feel free to talk on discord if you want. Your writing sounds like another forum user.

I've been asking you to chat on discord for a while now. Clearly we are making zero progress in this thread. Unless you want Loramin to throw both of our suggestions out and revert things back to the original challenge rules, then I suggest we work on some kind of compromise.

Zuranthium · #3 07-12-2025, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can show me LEGITIMATE posts from "a bunch" of people saying that they think outside buffs shouldn't be allowed for melee as the highest tier, then I will stop arguing completely and admit defeat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For melee classes, the most difficult circumstances that they can actually kill a god tier mob under, is buffed with no consumables. There is a reason why NO MELEE has EVER completed a god mode kill without buffs and no consumables, because its literally impossible.

You don't know what every player has ever done, and the math already checks out on several recorded kills that have been done. You've also continued to refuse to do the math on what an actual BIS Monk can do while utilizing all their procs.

Here a Monk kills Phinny with just 3 clicks of wort (only needed 2 clicks), while having non-ideal equipment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUhF2ki7x_M. He didn't even need to be completely BIS with Shroud of Longevity to be able to do that kill without the couple wort pot clicks. If he was using an Abashi and fist swapping, he would've done the necessary DPS to win completely solo.

That's exactly why a tier for no outside buffs/consumables is needed. People need to have a reason to push and see what is possible totally solo. There needs to be a metric of what is possible while using sustainable methods: a tier that describes the gameplay options for a player who wants to log on and do something with only their character and the permanent equipment it has. If a class can't do something without outside buffs/consumables (and most classes can't for the hardest stuff), then oh well. That's simply the reality of the capabilities for that class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would lull coding have anything to do with monks?

Monks are advantaged for pulling. There's going to be a LOT of stuff that becomes far harder for lull classes as compared to the way it is now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think only casters should be able to achieve an S+ Rank, then why even include melee in the competition at all?

The challenge is NOT measuring player skill based upon their ability with a certain class vs another player's ability with a different class!! The point of the challenges is to see what can done at each Tier, regardless of the class. For a lot of stuff that simply means Enchanter or Shaman if wanting to try S+ God Mode. That's just how the game is, those are the classes who have the tools to do difficult solo encounters.

The problem you're having is that your ego can't handle not being placed into what is labelled as the "top tier" when looking at the maximum possibility regardless of class. You're mad as hell about being 160 pounds and needing to fight in the "lower" bracket, instead of being 180 pounds and being allowed to fight in that bracket. Why? That's just the realities of each different body type; both weight classes are appreciable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree that there should be a place to recognize a no consumable kill

Then you should agree that no outside help needs to be recognized. There's no difference in combat capability between using a consumable or getting an outside buff of the same power level. It's the exact same level of assistance in combat. To try and act like no consumables is better than no outside buffs is totally irrational. The only reason you're acting this way is because you happen to have alts sitting around to buff you. You have no concern for what is actually the most objective thing and what would benefit the community most: a tier system that accurately describes the different solo/duo modes possible.

DeathsSilkyMist · #4 07-12-2025, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a lot more nuance than a hardline stance against outside buffs at the highest tier in these posts and within context of this thread. The posters can correct me of course if I misunderstood.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=710

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as I'm concerned it isn't a lesser kill because it was buffed

Gregorgasmic says it isn't a lesser kill with buffs, so it doesn't sound like he wants to lower OP's rank.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=703

Crede can contradict himself. His opinion is that cleric bots cannot be used in a group of four, while he simultaneously has had a cleric bot since 2014, and tells people to use them. I don't know if he is saying this just to be contradoctory. But fair if true.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=454

Shovelquest has also been against you and Samoht in this thread for trying to troll OP and lower his rank.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=707

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whether it's more challenging to have no outside buffs or no consumables may depend on the class or the fight and the class.

Bcbrown is saying there is nuance on outside buffs depending on the class and fight.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...8&postcount=19

Fair.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...9&postcount=11

Fair.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...6&postcount=18

Fair.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...7&postcount=38

This post is more concerned with strong clickies like puppet strings, and exploits.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...2&postcount=43

This post is also more about strong clickies. We don't know if he agrees with your idea that outside buffs are considered "assisted". We don't know what he means by "true solo" either.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...2&postcount=44

This post is saying you should disclose what you used in the fight, and OP did that. It doesn't specify that outside buffs cannot be considered for the highest tier.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...1&postcount=64

This post is a wash. The poster may agree with you, but the poster quotes kjs86z, who is praising Kelz's kill with consumables and buffs. Kjs86z seems to think it is the highest form of solo kill.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...0&postcount=72

Fair.

Out of those links, you found 4 or 5 posters (if you count Crede) who might agree with your hardline stance of no outside buffs for the highest tier. 6 when you include Samoht.

In this thread Myself, OP, Skarne, Confit, Novamix, rhold, summers_light, Snaggles, Tewaz, and kebpts have either disagreed with you/Samoht, or simply praised OP's kill.

So it's 7 people who agree/may agree with you (including yourself) vs. 10 people (including myself) who don't agree/may not agree so far. Remember some of those 6 other posters who agree/may agree aren't in this thread. We don't know if they would say something different based on this thread.

Nickelback8469 · #5 07-12-2025, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The challenge is NOT measuring player skill based upon their ability with a certain class vs another player's ability with a different class!! The point of the challenges is to see what can done at each Tier, regardless of the class. For a lot of stuff that simply means Enchanter or Shaman if wanting to try S+ God Mode. That's just how the game is, those are the classes who have the tools to do difficult solo encounters.

I agree, it may be much more difficult or even impossible for some classes to solo the hardest of mobs, but that goalpost will hopefully push some people to experiment with what's possible and push for what was previously thought unachievable. It's still a great achievement for classes to solo most of these mobs even with outside help in the form of buffs, clickies, or splitting, but the tiers should reflect the amount of aid given in the form of buffs or clickies