Current state of blue vs. green?

[Solist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everquest is not about boring ass raids and there is no such thing as competitive raiding without PvP or other mechanisms to reward actual player skill and teamwork. Racing for FTE's is not real skill and the game inherently rewards zergs, because there is no mechanism to prevent it, and it inherently rewards low level gameplay, as the NPC's are too brainless to go attack the priority targets (which is the mere starting layer of higher level gameplay).

Ok let's just assume you've never done anything on blue competitive, and break down a little bit.

Why I'm engaging with DSMlite I don't know, but here goes.

without PvP or other mechanisms to reward actual player skill and teamwork

Competitive raiding on blue IS player vs player. It is who is better prepared, who is better prepared on the aggregate, who has the highest standards. Actual red PVP in everquest is horrible, and never scaled well with content past classic. In velious it's simply untenable. But you beat your fellow player by being a better organised package.

You do this by mobilising faster, being able to engage faster with less people, being able to sustain longer without optimal class and numerical composition, and being able to pivot from one strategy to another quickly with no explanation needed.

Changing from a pet pull to a mage bomb to a DA toggle to a backtag all in the same 30 second period, and all 5 or 6 of the moving parts all play their part perfectly is what made Vanquish stomp everyone. And there is no barrier to entry to that, thats the beauty of blue raiding. Aside from a couple of bots that are easy to level there is zero barrier to entry. Every guild can practice, train, and execute.

You know all the 'strategies' people use to clear out all the npc's curently aren't like...'just the way' you do it, but they're eroded versions of pretty finessed methods developed during the competitive eras. You think we just did non kos low hp trainups in VP for the lols? It was a forced evolution from kos low hp trainups which evolved from full hp trainups which evolved from multiple people throwing bodies at it trainups which evolved from the no rules eras of moving raids around the zone and trying to kill the opposing raid etc.

People don't kite 6 vulak guards for fun; they do it because you need 6 people pumping more than MT aggro into a mob with linked aggro. It evolved from doing 4-3-2-1 drake engages, which evolved from drake clearing while trying to bump slow vulak+friends and engage 1-2-3-4 mobs at once, which evolved from non linked trainaways, which evolved from backtagging vulak solo unlinked when unrooted. Everything we do, on every single mob on blue/green has a lineage of optimisation. And for some of them several additional levels of optimisation still to come if the competitive edge ever requires it.

Racing for FTE's is not real skill and the game

You've never raced for content have you. Never had a game folder specific to racing, made characters specific to racing, broken down every possible controllable variable to optimise; then done quite literal thousands of practice runs.

I hate that shit too. But to say it took no skill is laughably ignorant. We'd spend 10hours straight practicing the same lines. I love chaotic VP runs with SOW speed. Kael racing is the worst and needs a good looking at.

Then stunningly decided despite being fastest of everyone, to then also likely cheat. He is/was genuinely the quickest dude on the server without scripting a thing. It's a shame, if (I think so) he cheated.

game inherently rewards zergs, because there is no mechanism to prevent it

Change the rules. The rules did not favor zergs for years. Then we changed the rules.
Then we changed the mechanics rooting dragons and leashing some.
Then we changed the mechanics again linking aggro.

Make rules that favor the individual input, not the size of the guild; and add a component of equalising the field to it.

My suggestion is:
Racing from specific points, using only sow speed, using only 200 range insta clicks only, only 1 DA, ban selos and ban ranged attack. That levels the playing field massively. Add an hour lockout. Add a 10min cooldown from TOD before you can earn another lockout. Job done. Bunch of 20-40 man guilds will be having a great time, while 50-100man guilds will also get more than their share of mobs still.

Too many races currently favor massive zergs as they dont reward the race win without a massive roster so the balance of probability is of 2-3 7k tanks, and 20 clerics logging in to stabilise anything, along with 5 quads to train away anything needed.

Lockouts really open up a lot of zones, and more casual strategy. It removes so many barriers, removes a lot of the week to week logistical load, and cuts down massively on consumable use. Some fights in Project Lightning I would use 14-15 wort pots, 9 clicks of each, tanking something waiting on appropriate heal chains. This isn't uncommon or special; its just the dumb shit you have to do to endure instant engages like a Doze. Instead that can be one thin bone wand click, and zero consumables, with 40+mins to set up, kill a couple of wurms and 2 mobs, control an engage nice and steadily etc. Full casual dad spec raiding is awesome when you have lockouts.

as the NPC's are too brainless to go attack the priority targets

If you don't find it rewarding to kill npc's in everquest, you're not challenging yourself by doing it with low enough numbers.

But I agree with you. EQ isn't about the mobs or the gear, it's about the people you play with and the player vs player you get to compete in. The most balanced PVP in EQ is the blue servers in that regard. Killing mobs in the game uncontested is the most boring game you can imagine. When it's competitive engages in the giant sized guilds all the playmakers pretty much AFK once the mob is stable. Noone is interested in killing Vulak #97. We're all interested in ways to compete to secure that mob though.

higher level gameplay

It seems to me you havn't taken part in even mid level gameplay uncontested on these servers except for draft mobs, and thats ok. You've maybe wasted your time on these servers when there was such excellent non competitive options.

The real issue on blue and green is the CSR are also like you, inexperienced, unknowledgeable, not technically minded, not inquisitive, and have always been 'have nots' and think the big bad guys raiding competitively were somehow this elitist club of shitheads. Every guild was just normal folks asked to partake in a few hoop jumping exercises to get prepared, and to try not to stand in the wrong spot too often. EQ isn't hard. The servers thrived when competition was easy to access, fair for the individual, and did not reward being the largest zerg exclusively; only rewarded it ratiometrically to their size.