New Druid Advice from the experts

[vales]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've used Goblin Ring, and I disagree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCpsgMYx7A

This video shows me getting 100% XP on both mobs while also saving nuke mana.

The problem is you don't actually know when Goblin Ring helped you. You are assuming it did.

Ring of Stealthy Travel has more tangible benefits.

I'm really confused what the video was supposed to disprove but I have some notes after watching it:

1. use root instead of enstill

2. you only had to calm one of them, and should try soothe to save mana

3. they are bad charm targets in general because they cast DoTs that mess with charm break timing, and the direct damage spells (including their DoT initial hits) make you spend more mana on reapplying root

the video shows you almost losing experience because of the DoT your pet placed on them and the slow invis (0% hp left), and only being able to kill your pet with choke due to it also having an oracle DoT on it

I don't think anyone in the thread has ever asserted you can't be mana efficient without a goblin ring, but that it allows you to consistently be. it's only logical that more control gives more precision

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No it was overnight getting the ring.

I didn't have that experience, and at least zelld52 also agrees with me. This is simply experience vs. experience, no hard facts.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What evidence do YOU have that you could be as efficient with invis/ROST in such situations? Situations that are routine for a soloing chanter mind you.

You are simply shifting the burden of proof here, which is a fallacy. You (and other posters)made the claim the Goblin Ring instant invis provides a special benefit for charm breaks. You need to prove it. I've provided enough evidence to cast resonable doubt on your claims, which means you need to provide counter evidence.

I understand why you don't want to do it. You'll need to provide vidoes of multiple long charm sessions with and without Goblin Ring to see if any significant change occured in kills per hour. You'll also need to show why the Ring was the cause of more kills per hour, and not RNG due to things like spell resists and what random level the mobs were.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But even if you could be as effective with ROST it comes with extra fiddling and why would you do that for minor perks like easy access to an inferior invis and negligible stats?

If both rings are just as efficient, then Ring of Steathly Shadows wins objectively (when you are 49+) because it has more perks. I don't know why you keep claiming you need to do more fiddling with Ring of Stealthy Travel. You don't have to target yourself, so you are doing one less action that Goblin Ring. You'll be ducking a Ring of Stealthy Shadows cast less often than literally targeting yourself every single time.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm really confused what the video was supposed to disprove but I have some notes after watching it:

1. use root instead of enstill

2. you only had to calm one of them, and should try soothe to save mana

3. they are bad charm targets in general because they cast DoTs that mess with charm break timing, and the direct damage spells (including their DoT initial hits) make you spend more mana on reapplying root

the video shows you almost losing experience because of the DoT your pet placed on them and the slow invis (0% hp left), and only being able to kill your pet with choke due to it also having an oracle DoT on it

I don't think anyone in the thread has ever asserted you can't be mana efficient without a goblin ring, but that it allows you to consistently be. it's only logical that more control gives more precision

The point of the video is to show you don't need Goblin Ring to save nuke mana. That's it. It wasn't trying to show the best possible gameplay ever.

This means the people promoting Goblin Ring need to actually show Goblin Ring specifically helped. Any kill could have been done without Goblin Ring otherwise. You don't know.

If you want to claim Goblin Ring is more efficient, you need to provide evidence for that claim!

[vales]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to claim Goblin Ring is more efficient, you need to provide evidence for that claim!

the cast time of the alternatives being longer than a combat round is evidence enough

if you want to prove a 2 sec cast is just as good, then you need to prove consistency, not a 1-off fight (in which you basically proved the opposite with that 0% hp mob)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the cast time of the alternatives being longer than a combat round is evidence enough

if you want to prove a 2 sec cast is just as good, then you need to prove consistency, not a 1-off fight (in which you basically proved the opposite with that 0% hp mob)

As I told Goregasmic, you are shifting the burden of proof, which is a fallacy. I didn't make the claim that Goblin Ring is more efficient due to instant cast invis. You did (and other posters). I supplied enough counter evidence to put reasonable doubt on to your claim. It is up to you to prove your claim about Goblin Ring, not me.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the cast time of the alternatives being longer than a combat round is evidence enough

if you want to prove a 2 sec cast is just as good, then you need to prove consistency, not a 1-off fight (in which you basically proved the opposite with that 0% hp mob)

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you (still) engage with him?

There's no way to win in a conversation with DSM. He will drag you down to his level of disengenuity, and then beat you with experience.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no way to win in a conversation with DSM. He will drag you down to his level of disengenuity, and then beat you with experience.

Why do you keep lying? You clearly didn't read the forum rules or the PnP. You of all people should have read them.

This isn't RnF. Stick to the topic at hand or stop spamming the thread with nonsense. Acting like a child does not make you look good, or me look bad.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't have that experience, and at least zelld52 also agrees with me. This is simply experience vs. experience, no hard facts.



You are simply shifting the burden of proof here, which is a fallacy. You (and other posters)made the claim the Goblin Ring instant invis provides a special benefit for charm breaks. You need to prove it. I've provided enough evidence to cast resonable doubt on your claims, which means you need to provide counter evidence.

I understand why you don't want to do it. You'll need to provide vidoes of multiple long charm sessions with and without Goblin Ring to see if any significant change occured in kills per hour. You'll also need to show why the Ring was the cause of more kills per hour, and not RNG due to things like spell resists and what random level the mobs were.



If both rings are just as efficient, then Ring of Steathly Shadows wins objectively (when you are 49+) because it has more perks. I don't know why you keep claiming you need to do more fiddling with Ring of Stealthy Travel. You don't have to target yourself, so you are doing one less action that Goblin Ring. You'll be ducking a Ring of Stealthy Shadows cast less often than literally targeting yourself every single time.

Zelld52 is farming chardok. He doesn't need exp or to even break pet. I already said the ROST would be better in such a situation. I'm also farming chardok and my GGR is bagged.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You say the burden of proof is on me but I already explained the situations and the reasons why ROST would be inferior but you chose to disregard them. For someone who went to great length to make a damage calculator you seem to have a hard time comprehending the dynamics of a simple combat round.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zelld52 is farming chardok. He doesn't need exp or to even break pet. I already said the ROST would be better in such a situation. I'm also farming chardok and my GGR is bagged.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sounds like you are using ROST then. I am glad we have some common ground at least.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For someone who went to great length to make a damage calculator you seem to have a hard time comprehending the dynamics of a simple combat round.

Perhaps it is you who doesn't have a good enough understanding of the combat round. If your join date is correct, that means I've been farming high level content as a level 60 for more years than you have been playing on P99. I have also made a DPS cacluator, as you say.

Again, I don't believe in the argument from authority fallacy. You were right about the offhand timer being 100% independent, and I was wrong. I updated my calculator to reflect that. Thank you! I am still learning new things, which is one thing that makes P99 fun.

My mains have been Shaman and SK for most of my time here, so I am not as directly experienced with player dual wielding. The 100% independent timer is only obvious when you do something abnormal for P99, like use a 60 delay weapon on a Monk without haste and try to do multiple rounds of fistweaving. That's how I confirmed the indeoendent timer. Monks always want haste and generally use fast 2H weapons, so it isn't like this nuance was normally discussed or obvious to spot.

Personally I don't have an issue with predicting one combat round ahead of time. You get a feel for combat and even specific mobs over time when you have killed enough of them. We also do 10 second CH chains quite consistently. Can you ever be 100% sure CH will land? No, but we get it right often enough to clear all raid content every week.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I leveled my enchanter I started with a GGR, but didn’t like how I had to swap to myself first before invis and then tab target to my pet. I preferred to have my pet pre-targeted by pressing F1 twice and then breaking charm. So I switched to the stealthy travel and found it much more convenient.

Turns out you don’t have to wait til the very last minute to break charm. Works well, still use it.

The disagreement in this thread isn't really about ring of stealthy travel vs goblin ring. Here's a quick summary:

* OP asks for some advice on rolling a druid "doing as much charm killing as I can", including a question about gear at the end.
* Loramin proposes spending the entire budget on a goblin ring. Several people advocate instead for buying HP/AC/Mana gear, including myself, Toxigen, and DSM.
* There's broad consensus that the goblin ring is very good.
* Toxigen and I say that it isn't necessary, as we've both charmed our way to 60 without one. No one else really agrees with us. Toxigen's position is that it's no more than a minor QoL improvement. My position is that if you can afford one you should get one, but if you can't afford one you'll do just fine charming all the way to 60 on a druid.
* DSM says the best part of the goblin ring is the mana savings from not having to cast IvA, plus saving a spell gem.
* Everyone else points out that spell slots aren't a huge constraint for druids (but is still a nice perk), and DSM drops it.
* Everyone else says that the best part of the goblin ring is the instant cast. DSM disagrees vociferously and then the next 40 pages happen as a result.

The ring of stealthy travel isn't relevant because you can't use it till level 49 and this thread is in the context of leveling a charming druid. My opinion is that by the time someone is close to 50 they'll have had enough experience to make their own choice.