New Druid Advice from the experts

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The whole point is, the more you're casting, the more frequently you will miss meditate ticks. Plus every other opportunity cost that comes from taking time to perform an action rather than being able to do it instantly.

If people want to say the only benefits of instant cast invis for charm break are less potential for interrupts and perhaps a few more med ticks, that is more reasonable than the previous arguments for Goblin Ring. There is no evidence to suggest Goblin Ring helps secure kills or helps with saving nuke mana.

Ring of Stealthy Travel also provides benefits that Goblin Ring does not. Goblin Ring requires self targeting. Ring of Stealthy Travel is self cast, so you don't need to spend the time swapping back to your original target. You can also self invis at any time, saving more mana and spellbook time depending on the scenario.

Realistically the med ticks you might save are not really a factor if the player isn't tracking med ticks. They'll miss med ticks in all sorts of scenarios anyway. A 2 second cast is difficult to interrupt unless perhaps you are being attacked by multiple mobs. But in that scenario breaking charm is dangerous, as you are adding another monster into the mix that is beating you down.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the correct response to DSM.

When Loramin cannot win a debate, his only recourse is to shut down the discussion. Sorry you lost Lormain. Try using facts and logic instead of lies and fallacies next time.

[vales]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If people want to say the only benefits of instant cast invis for charm break are less potential for interrupts and perhaps a few more med ticks, that is more reasonable than the previous arguments for Goblin Ring. There is no evidence to suggest Goblin Ring helps secure kills or helps with saving nuke mana.

Ring of Stealthy Travel also provides benefits that Goblin Ring does not. Goblin Ring requires self targeting. Ring of Stealthy Travel is self cast, so you don't need to spend the time swapping back to your original target. You can also self invis at any time, saving more mana and spellbook time depending on the scenario.

the evidence suggesting it helps secure kills and saves mana is in the experience of every player who has ever used it. being able to wait longer to break lets you have more control over hp, and mob hp is what determines how much mana you need to spend. instant cast removes the need to rely on rng and means less killed charmed pets when pushing for mana efficiency

"time swapping back" is pressing 1 button that works instantly (maybe even less if you add /tar to a simultaneous macro, never tried). valuing a fraction of a second of time when you don't value an instant cast and think spending 2 seconds to invis is good is very strange. and those valued milliseconds are a period of time where time spent no longer matters, because the time-sensitive action of breaking charm has already been completed

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the evidence suggesting it helps secure kills and saves mana is in the experience of every player who has ever used it.

I've used Goblin Ring, and I disagree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCpsgMYx7A

This video shows me getting 100% XP on both mobs while also saving nuke mana.

The problem is you don't actually know when Goblin Ring helped you. You are assuming it did.

Ring of Stealthy Travel has more tangible benefits.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not how it works. Your target is the mob that isn't charmed and when breaking charm you have to swap target to the previously charmed mob anyway to deal with it since your target is rooted and you just cut loose your charmed mob on you. You have to switch target no matter what. Casting the ring is not an issue it's the retargetting that's more annoying and you do that with both rings.

You can pre target whatever you want before you break charm via Ring of Stealthy Travel because it is self cast.

This allows you to get ready before the break, rather than forcing a retarget after the break via Goblin Ring.

If you think the retargeting is more annoying, then you should use a Ring of Stealthy Travel instead.

[zelld52]

lol y’all are splitting hairs over the dumbest shit.

I leveled a necro first, so pre nerf circlet of shadow is best of both worlds.

When I leveled my enchanter I started with a GGR, but didn’t like how I had to swap to myself first before invis and then tab target to my pet. I preferred to have my pet pre-targeted by pressing F1 twice and then breaking charm. So I switched to the stealthy travel and found it much more convenient.

Turns out you don’t have to wait til the very last minute to break charm. Works well, still use it.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can pre target whatever you want before you break charm via Ring of Stealthy Travel because it is self cast.

This allows you to get ready before the break, rather than forcing a retarget after the break via Goblin Ring.

If you think the retargeting is more annoying, then you should use a Ring of Stealthy Travel instead.

If you're going to wait until the mob is literally one round away from death against a hasted pet you can't really pre-switch before breaking, much less fuck around with a 2sec cast. That's how you kill 10k hp mobs with a 288dd.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're going to wait until the mob is literally one round away from death against a hasted pet you can't really pre-switch before breaking, much less fuck around with a 2sec cast. That's how you kill 10k hp mobs with a 288dd.

Of course you can pre-switch. You may not know this, but you can cycle targets while casting spells. So you can target cycle during the Stealthy Ring casting. Also breaking earlier is safer than breaking later, so I am not sure what your argument is.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure what your argument is.

It is one more action in a very limited time window. Technically feasible but it's adding risk. At this point I prefere playing safe and eating a round if mana conservation is critical.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is one more action in a very limited time window. Technically feasible but it's adding risk. At this point I prefere playing safe and eating a round if mana conservation is critical.

It isn't one more action, it's one less action because you don't have to also target yourself. Ring of Stealthy Travel is safer because you want to start breaking one combat round earlier. The later you wait to break via Goblin Ring, the riskier it is. Based on everything you said when it comes to playing safer and being annoyed at target switching, Ring of Stealthy Travel is better for you. You aren't arguing for Goblin Ring.

[vales]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've used Goblin Ring, and I disagree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCpsgMYx7A

This video shows me getting 100% XP on both mobs while also saving nuke mana.

The problem is you don't actually know when Goblin Ring helped you. You are assuming it did.

Ring of Stealthy Travel has more tangible benefits.

I'm really confused what the video was supposed to disprove but I have some notes after watching it:

1. use root instead of enstill

2. you only had to calm one of them, and should try soothe to save mana

3. they are bad charm targets in general because they cast DoTs that mess with charm break timing, and the direct damage spells (including their DoT initial hits) make you spend more mana on reapplying root

the video shows you almost losing experience because of the DoT your pet placed on them and the slow invis (0% hp left), and only being able to kill your pet with choke due to it also having an oracle DoT on it

I don't think anyone in the thread has ever asserted you can't be mana efficient without a goblin ring, but that it allows you to consistently be. it's only logical that more control gives more precision

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm really confused what the video was supposed to disprove but I have some notes after watching it:

1. use root instead of enstill

2. you only had to calm one of them, and should try soothe to save mana

3. they are bad charm targets in general because they cast DoTs that mess with charm break timing, and the direct damage spells (including their DoT initial hits) make you spend more mana on reapplying root

the video shows you almost losing experience because of the DoT your pet placed on them and the slow invis (0% hp left), and only being able to kill your pet with choke due to it also having an oracle DoT on it

I don't think anyone in the thread has ever asserted you can't be mana efficient without a goblin ring, but that it allows you to consistently be. it's only logical that more control gives more precision

The point of the video is to show you don't need Goblin Ring to save nuke mana. That's it. It wasn't trying to show the best possible gameplay ever.

This means the people promoting Goblin Ring need to actually show Goblin Ring specifically helped. Any kill could have been done without Goblin Ring otherwise. You don't know.

If you want to claim Goblin Ring is more efficient, you need to provide evidence for that claim!