New Druid Advice from the experts

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I started writing a longer post but basically your argument is that in the BEST CASE SCENARIO stealthy would be just as good goblin.

Stealthy Ring would be better because of the other benefits I mentioned as well, which are more quantifiable than the supposed mana saving benefit you claim Goblin Ring exclusively has, but cannot prove.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. The benefits of Ring of Stealthy Travel over Goblin Ring are as follows:
A. You get regular invis for free (more mana saving).
B. You don't need to switch targets, as Ring of Stealthy Travel is self cast. This saves a bit of time and reduces targeting errors.
C. You only need to mem invis when invising others, saving spellbook time.
D. Free clickie invis allows you to save mana and time in scenarios where you can lull some mobs and invis around the rest. You don't always need to lull every mob.

You also admitted that once you have Lumi Staff or ES arms, you can save the same nuke mana with mana free damage clickies anyway. So you don't need Goblin Ring for the same mana saving levels 49+, when Stealthy Ring is clickable.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for the gobby vs no gobby AB testing, I've done 44 levels without and 15 levels with and I can tell you I lost significantly more mobs and had to nuke harder without... but its hard to lose less mobs than the zero i'm losing with gobby.

You already admitted that Goblin Ring doesn't positively affect how well you can secure a kill.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody said you need instant/gobby to secure a fight. The point is securing it slightly later to not only avoid nuking twice, but to barely have to nuke at all.

I am not sure why you keep trying to make it sound like you are somehow losing less mobs due to having Goblin Ring specifically.

You could have lost more mobs without Goblin Ring simply because you weren't as good at charming before you got it. You'd need to do AB testing with your current charming skills to rule out that possibility.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The whole "breaking closer to death has more loss potential" argument has no ground to stand on because the result would be the same with a stealthy ring if it supposedly performs the same. If you chose to to break earlier with stealthy to prevent risk you can do that with a gobby ring too.

It's pretty easy to understand that the closer the mob is to death, the more likely it is to be lost. For the Goblin Ring mana saving strategy to work, you need to click it closer to the mob's death than Ring of Stealthy Travel. This could lead to riskier plays if you aren't being mindful of that.

[bcbrown]

DSM have you tried doing any charming without a goblin ring or other invis clicky?

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s possible to simply miss-time a Goblin ring click and lose your pet or kill the other mob. The Stealthy ring adds 2 seconds to this potential for human error. In the high end game this could be a lot of hit points to burn down.

I can see why an ench, Druid, or necro (without a COS) might deal with a Stealthy ring at 60. You are doing more pet resets than low HP grinding. I think leveling up without an instant click is a huge disadvantage. Outside quad charming with my BARD for the hot minute I did, it was less important for that class since you can dot for free.

I hate the Gob ring and adore the Stealthy but instant is instant. Just use one until it servers no purpose. I’ve never had an issue selling one so this a moot point to even fellow haters.

Fixing a typo; bard not Druid. I was “quad-charming” suites for a bit with the bard. Sometimes both 4s and 6s when they were free. It’s not relevant to this convo but hps drop very quick with that kind of dps.

I finished up doing Expedition Dwarves and a 3 sec selo song of travel worked or just letting the 3 tick charm fade but again…run speed and infinite dots make whittling down most things very easy.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM have you tried doing any charming without a goblin ring or other invis clicky?

Yes I have. I've also killed thousands of mobs over the years of all levels, so I have a pretty good feel for how DPS works in a fight.

[bcbrown]

Could you tell us a little more about your experiences charming? What levels/zones have you charmed without a goblin ring, and what levels/zones have you charmed with one?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Could you tell us a little more about your experiences charming? What levels/zones have you charmed without a goblin ring, and what levels/zones have you charmed with one?

If you want to support the claim Goblin Ring is more benefitial than Ring of Stealthy Travel, you will need to provide some evidence for it. Thus far nobody in this thread has been able to do so. I've laid out my arguments clearly.

You have a habbit of not reading my posts, so please refer to those for my arguments. I don't need to repost them all for you.

I understand you are trying to do the gotcha of "you haven't charmed every mob, so how can you know?" fallacy. You tried that earlier. Again, you haven't charmed at all with Goblin Ring, so we'd be at an impasse there in terms of lobbing fallacies back and forth.

[bcbrown]

It's hard to believe you've spent any significant time charming without an invis clicky when you say stuff like "I am not sure why you keep trying to make it sound like you are somehow losing less mobs due to having Goblin Ring specifically.". This is pretty clearly obvious to me, and I think to everyone else who has spent any time charming without one. Looking at the impressive gear on your enchanter's Magelo I would assume you twinked him out with a goblin ring from the start. Everyone else in this thread has referenced their personal experience, why can't you do the same?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's hard to believe you've spent any significant time charming without an invis clicky when you say stuff like "I am not sure why you keep trying to make it sound like you are somehow losing less mobs due to having Goblin Ring specifically.". This is pretty clearly obvious to me, and I think to everyone else who has spent any time charming without one. Looking at the impressive gear on your enchanter's Magelo I would assume you twinked him out with a goblin ring from the start. Everyone else in this thread has referenced their personal experience, why can't you do the same?

I did reference my personal experience, you simply didn't read it[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You can certainly choose to believe I haven't charmed a lot. I didn't record my entire charming experience. Nor has anyone else, so we can be equally skeptical of everyone else's experience if you want to go down that road.

Right now the people supporting Goblin Ring haven't supplied any evidence, and have admitted you can get the same mana saving with mana free damage clickies, rendering the potential Goblin Ring mana savings moot anyway once you are 46+.

[Snaggles]

Respectfully, don’t know if I’d make this your hill to die on. Circlet of Shadows make necro charming a joy. If they didn’t, people would just buy the 9k 2-second ring instead of the 130-150k circlet (blue prices).

I have a 56 necro with a CoS and a 46 ench (used to be 54) without anything. I wouldn’t enjoy charming with self cast invis. I tried going back to the ench and quit after a long afternoon, lol.

You “can” do a lot of things in EQ. There is always a better way though and unlike arguing over a few stats, instant click is instant click.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Respectfully, don’t know if I’d make this your hill to die on. Circlet of Shadows make necro charming a joy. If they didn’t, people would just buy the 9k 2-second ring instead of the 130-150k circlet (blue prices).

I have a 56 necro with a CoS and a 46 ench (used to be 54) without anything. I wouldn’t enjoy charming with self cast invis. I tried going back to the ench and quit after a long afternoon, lol.

You “can” do a lot of things in EQ. There is always a better way though and unlike arguing over a few stats, instant click is instant click.

Agreed. Invis clickies are superior for charm break. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. I am not. The debate is about instant cast invis vs. Invis with a casting time when it comes to breaking charm specifically.

The reason why Necros and Shadowknights like pre-nerf CoS isn't mainly for charming. Remember that SK's can't even charm. Instant invis on Necros and SK's is nice because it enables you to do things like get up from FD and instantly cast invis.

If Necros want cheaper instant cast invis for charming, they can buy a Goblin Ring.

My SK has a pre-nerf CoS, and he can't charm.