A Statistical analysis of Charm Duration

[charleski]

What about level? Surely the difference in level affects charm duration?

Result:
Unable to reject the null hypothesis that level difference has no effect at the 95% level.

A few days before performing the experiment with CHA I went to GFay and faced off against the mighty level 2 orc pawn (confirmed white-con to a level 2 player). This test was also performed with a CHA of 115. I was 48 at the time, so the difference was 46 levels, as opposed to 11-12 levels against the greater spurbone in EJ.

Input data 1:
File: L50 EJ Gt Spurbone CHA 115.txt
Total trials: 1157
p charm success (per tick): 0.9742
Wilson Score lower bound: 0.9647
Wilson Score upper bound: 0.9836
Input data 2:
File: orc_pawn_CHA115.txt
Total trials: 2053
p charm success (per tick): 0.9840
Wilson Score lower bound: 0.9784
Wilson Score upper bound: 0.9895

probability difference: 0.0098

Newcombe-Wilson difference interval: -0.0110, 0.0109
Not significant at 95% level

There is one possibility that is not tested here. It may be that level difference only has a manifest effect when it is very small, possibly via an exponential factor that has saturated by the time level difference is 10 or more. Unfortunately I'm unable to test this on my own. If you know of a healer or another high-level enchanter who's willing to spend hours doing nothing other than help getting a L50 mob under control again on breaks, then drop me a line. But be warned: doing this for several hours in a row is not the most exciting experience.

[charleski]

Finally, what about magic resist? Does that have an effect on charm duration?

I haven't formally tested this yet. This is largely because, as mentioned earlier, I frequently notice charms that last so long that tash wears off, which obviously will have a confounding effect on the succeeding trials, and I'm not sure how to handle these instances.

But frankly, the question of magic resist is largely moot anyway as we know for sure that MR is important in handling charm breaks. When charm breaks you go through the stun-L4mez-reTash-reCharm cycle (strung together with the clicky exploit) and landing the stun and mez are essential components in making that happen smoothly. Successful charming means successful handling of charm breaks, and keeping the mob's MR low is a critical factor in that.

So those Rusty Spiked Shoulderpads are indeed a useful addition, just not in terms of increasing charm duration.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by charleski [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't formally tested this yet. This is largely because, as mentioned earlier, I frequently notice charms that last so long that tash wears off, which obviously will have a confounding effect on the succeeding trials, and I'm not sure how to handle these instances.

If you duel a conspirator they can refresh tash on your pet before it fades, removing that confounding effect.

[bcbrown]

Very nice work. It'll take me a couple readings to fully grasp, but on a preliminary basis your conclusions look well-founded. A couple initial comments:

You suggest that charisma does not impact charm duration, and therefore is overvalued as a stat. I don't play an enchanter, but my understanding has always been that high charisma is mainly valued for the impact on the lull line of spells, not charms.

Originally Posted by charleski [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't formally tested this yet. This is largely because, as mentioned earlier, I frequently notice charms that last so long that tash wears off, which obviously will have a confounding effect on the succeeding trials, and I'm not sure how to handle these instances.

Since every tick is an independent trial, when parsing the log couldn't you track the log entry for tash wearing off and group subsequent trials separately from tash-active trials?

The test comparing durations for the orc pawn versus the EJ skeleton is interesting. I would expect that a 46-level difference would completely saturate any level-dependent effect, but a 10-12 level difference I would have expected to be small enough to show an impact if there was one. I'm happy to volunteer two hours supporting further testing with either a 60 druid or 55 cleric.

[charleski]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since every tick is an independent trial, when parsing the log couldn't you track the log entry for tash wearing off and group subsequent trials separately from tash-active trials?

That is certainly possible. I'll admit that I haven't really got round to working on the problem properly. This is partially because, as I mentioned, you definitely do want to keep mob MR low in order to handle the charm breaks smoothly. But this is something to keep in mind for future study.

The test comparing durations for the orc pawn versus the EJ skeleton is interesting. I would expect that a 46-level difference would completely saturate any level-dependent effect, but a 10-12 level difference I would have expected to be small enough to show an impact if there was one. I'm happy to volunteer two hours supporting further testing with either a 60 druid or 55 cleric.

One possibility that occurred to me is that level difference is factored in an exponential manner, such that small level differences have an appreciable effect, but beyond 10 levels or so it has shrunk to a vanishingly small level.

If you're happy spending several hours doing nothing other than staring at a mob waiting for it to break, drop Feressa a tell in the game. But it is pretty boring [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[bcbrown]

I've been doing a little digging into Torven's writeups on equemu, and I think he can explain why you didn't see an effect from level difference here:

Originally Posted by charleski [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A few days before performing the experiment with CHA I went to GFay and faced off against the mighty level 2 orc pawn (confirmed white-con to a level 2 player). This test was also performed with a CHA of 115. I was 48 at the time, so the difference was 46 levels, as opposed to 11-12 levels against the greater spurbone in EJ.

Originally Posted by Torven

What we can determine from this is that there is a limit as to how much advantage a player gets from being a higher level than the NPC-- that limit is 20% resist rate, or 40 resist value. Resist rate flattens starting at +9 levels above the NPC-- the level advantage players get over NPCs is capped at 9 levels, and 9 levels corresponds with 20% resist rate. The second item of note is that the rate of change is not linear, and gets stronger the farther away from the NPC's level one is. The warlord and soldier resist rates hit 100% at their two points due to the maximum allowable level hit range.

from https://web.archive.org/web/20200813...ad.php?t=38673

Originally Posted by Torven

The resist modifier from level difference is: diff^2 / 2, capped at -40. Charm ticks add +4 to the caster's level here. For example, the Crystalline golem's effective MR vs a level 65 would be: 50 - INT((65-62)^2 / 2) = 46. But for charm ticks: 50 - INT((69-62)^2 / 2) = 26.

from https://www.eqemulator.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=43370

This suggests there is a level cap, which explains why this data doesn't show any impact from level difference (11-12 levels vs 46 levels)