Do you believe in fatalism or free will?

[Ciderpress]

I'd say it's definitely better to subscribe to free will than fatalism, if only because fatalism invites you to be a fat slob, and free will invites you to get in shape and not be a fat slob. Even if free will per se is an illusion, it's a good illusion to believe in. Very similar to how I'm an athiest but I would much rather live in a christian society than an islamic society.

[shovelquest]

I follow the gaslight theory.

I gaslight myself to think taking the high road is how I pass some kind of fucked up test.

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

Originally Posted by Ciderpress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd say it's definitely better to subscribe to free will than fatalism, if only because fatalism invites you to be a fat slob, and free will invites you to get in shape and not be a fat slob. Even if free will per se is an illusion, it's a good illusion to believe in. Very similar to how I'm an athiest but I would much rather live in a christian society than an islamic society.

Most people have a goal of meeting someone, maybe getting married, maybe having some kids. Maybe having a home in the city or out in the country. At least I did aside from the kids part or the living in the country. I love the outdoors and remote trips as a vacation, but I love living in the city more (minus traffic)

A fatalist, or a nihilist Reddit bro, would just be sitting there on their ass waiting for the “Hey here’s a free wife, family and home for you!” letter to come in the mail. Assuming they even check their mail

Then when they realize that letter is probably not going to come, they continue to downgrade their standards over and over until

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I’m all for being content with less. But making that not only become a pattern throughout life but an excuse on its own to justify not ever trying is not healthy

[Lune]

Originally Posted by NopeNopeNopeNope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dozens and dozens of Reddit broÂ’s have taken various forms of this argument during my time there. Except theirs was a bit more practical and less theological

Their argument was always “why can’t I be content where I am as single, lonely, and unemployed and not be some wage slave to a corporate overlord?”

The real issue is and always has been the work. “Wage slave” implies entry level jobs. The greater your skillset and education, the more leverage you have not just in pay but how you are treated as well. If these Reddit bros were just man enough to come out snd admit “hey man, it’s just too much work for me to improve my skillset that much” I’d be like /fistbump bro right there with ya. I don’t think I could become a doctor or engineer, that’s just too much school. But I at least have the balls to admit the truth and not try to do some mental gymnastics about how it’s really about capitalism and not my own personal laziness

I think wage slave more implies non-meaningful work that doesn't bring fulfillment to your life, to some people that even means being a doctor (high suicide rate when they find out what the job actually is, basically a 7 minute assembly line for some healthcare corp).

The complaint is more as follows: Even if you're insanely skilled and competent, and work hard, there are very few paths to financial independence and fulfillment that don't involve being a toadie in some CEO's downline. Yes, if you excel in your work, you are able to leverage a larger piece of the pie for yourself, but as long as you are an employee and not an owner, most of the proceeds of your excellence are just going into someone's yacht fund. Fast forward 30 years, the vast majority of people have spent 10 hours a day 5 days a week carving out enough for themselves that yea, they've been able to kinda enjoy life, go on some vacations, buy a house, have some kids.

When you look in the backend you see that their zeal and drive to carve out a life for themselves was channeled into fuel for capitalism, for someone else's benefit. You were allowed to keep a hefty portion for yourself, but not without kicking up to the guy at the top of the pyramid. Very, very few people have the capacity to subvert this process.

In life, there is no way around having to work to earn your freedom, even if you work for yourself (unless you were born with money). I'm sure there are plenty of dropouts who do so out of laziness or just being too stupid, but I'd also argue that opting out on ideological terms can be a valid and honorable choice. On the other side of it, hustle culture is fucking insufferable.

What would Jesus do?

[Ciderpress]

CEO's also work, I'm not sure why this is news to so many people. In fact, they are among the hardest working personality type, which is why they become the boss. They will not continue to be the boss without working. And now 20-something retards like luigi want to murder them. They deserve their pay.

Nothing but bald-faced envy masquerading as some kind of high-minded social awareness. Good job luigi, that guy's innocent children don't have a dad anymore.

[SorenVC]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Scientifically, we don't really know yet. At scales larger than subatomic particles, things generally work deterministically, that is, acting in an intricate and unbroken chain of causality stretching back to the Big Bang. Everything you have ever done or ever will do was determined at the instant of creation.

Quantum mechanics revealed some qualities of the universe that appear to behave probabilistically. There was a huge debate between Einstein and the determinists on one side and Niels Bohr and the quantum mechanics/randomness kooks on the other (this is where Einstein's "God Does Not Play Dice" quote came from. Most scientists these days lean toward randomness being real but there are still things like hidden variables theories (the guys who won the Nobel prize in Physics in 2022 won it for dunking on these hidden variables people).

There are still holdouts in the determinism camp, like superdeterminism, which basically argues there is an underlying deterministic godhand behind every supposedly 'random' result. This is probably unfalsifiable and is closer to a religion than a scientific theory.

So if probability is a real quality of the universe, it is very much possible that you actually have free will, that you are actually making your own decisions-- but it feels unlikely and I'll explain a few oblique ways it could be possible:

1. Orchestrated Objective Reduction: Argues that the microtubules in the neurons of your central nervous system bridge our consciousness with the quantum realm, and allow us to collapse wave functions as a singular entity to create our objective reality and essentially act as a quantum computer. Seems like mystical woo-woo shit right? Well consider that 100 years later we still have no fucking idea how general anesthesia works, we can't find a mechanism anywhere in the cells of our brain. But a few interesting studies in the last few years have found a connection to microtubules. Most consider this theory to be bullshit.

2. Allegory of the Cave, or Idealism: We entirely create or singularly experience our own reality, like a stream of data into a receiver. At the instant of observation, when the wave function collapses, and a pixel of the universe transforms from a wave function (data), to a particle (reality), it provides its 'causal history' contained within the wave (in the form of its energy, direction, amplitude etc). Was any of it actually real?

Einstein, questioning the apparent absurdity of quantum mechanical explanations for reality, famously was like "So you're saying the moon isn't there when I'm not observing it?". And the quantum mechanics/randomness people were like "You can't prove that it is". And they were right. Our observations, or at least the objective collapse of a wave function, have the power to ret-con their own history through time. This can also be explained as: they are neither a particle or a wave, they are nothing at all until we create/observe them. Indistinguishable from the fabric of the universe and reality.

In this paradigm, reality is nothing more than a stream of data, and we make real choices with our free will, and the stream constructs a plausible deterministic history. This would have some power in explaining things like synchronicities and the collective unconscious, basically themes in the fabric of the dream. (Interestingly, this idea came from a collaboration between Carl Jung, an analytic psychologist, and Wolfgang Pauli, one of the originators of quantum mechanics, both mystics).

Basically:

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I don't believe in your over-complicated intellect science nonsense! Real enthusiasts know that earth is flat! The proof is all over reddit on globeskepticism.
https://www.reddit.com/r/globeskepticism/

Yes, I am hereby exposing myself, SorenVC, as a flat earther! I have researched this good enough and I am 100% certain that the surface of earth is flat as your eyes can see it. Mountains of evidence are to be found on this subreddit. Even if you don't believe it, just leave a mean comment like a normal person on those posts, or open your eyes and realize the truth that earth is flat.

It is like a GTA map, flat plain surface with some mountains and buildings. All proof is on globeskepticism and I will not debate on this because it is useless. If you are a glober or globie, you will continue to believe the NASA lies. Let me tell you, these lizard people are very real, the lizard peepul are among us, and they are hiding in high positions of government! That's why the world goes to shit right now. So keep believing in your magic free will, or come to the dark side and realize the truth that earth is flat. Your choice. Or is it?

[SorenVC]

Science is not a trustable source of information anymore. They have failed us with covid masks, invented viruses like covid, global warming, gender war (wtf???), they have given us obunga as president, and the lizard are laughing at us by giving us fake cgi from NASA. also the 2 planes that brought down 3 skyscrapers, are not real, they were edited in using video compositing, a reknowned hollywood technique. That's not my own finding, but some youtube comment said that, and I have read all the youtube comments surrounding this topic and considered this one made the most sense. Because that third building got demolished and collapsed into itself without any plane.

It works like this. You have one video of a plane flying normally in the sky and you have another separate video of a skyscraper being blown up with thermite. You combine these two videos using video compositing and you have bush nine-eleven.

thermite caused this that was installed in months long lasting elevator repairs. they have said the elevators were infunctional, so they sent a team and installed thermite in them, rejecting entrance of the bureau workers to those specific stages, and then they bombed those buildings with the installed thermite, and it looks just like a demolition. conspiracy alert. not for the faint of heart! but this makes more sense, than the official story, and I'm tired of pretending it does not! If you want to ban me from this forum now, please don't, because I like this forum, just consider me a crazy lizard person and ban me to the realm of retarded autistic people, because I have asperger.

[SorenVC]

Now only because there's some too many co2 or somethin' we have to drive electric cars. Good Lord! I was happy with my VW Diesel Passat and they want me to drive a Tesla now! Those MONSTERS!!!!

[Ciderpress]

There isn't too much co2, it's like not even close to being too much yet. Coral reefs are thriving, the ozone hole is shrinknig, the LA skyline which used to be yellow in 1970 is now blue.

[SorenVC]

Originally Posted by Ciderpress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There isn't too much co2, it's like not even close to being too much yet. Coral reefs are thriving, the ozone hole is shrinknig, the LA skyline which used to be yellow in 1970 is now blue.

Well here in Germany we are shutting down nuclear reactors for the good of climate! Even though PORSCHE and the other car companies don't want to build electric cars anymore, we are still shutting down the energy fields. Don't know why to be honest. Even more reason to believe in fatalism! Because some things are not logical and defy logic itself! It must be fatalism! Right?!