monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People miscalculate, use incorrect tools, and incorrect/outdated logic all the time.

Indeed. Incorrect tools like Gamparse and outdated logic from when people played live are often in play when discussing P99. That is why I focus on how P99 works specifically, using raw logs from P99. That is the best way to figure out who is correct when looking at how P99 works.

I am not really interested in how people think it should work. I leave it to other posters to find evidence from live to support their claims P99 should work one way or the other.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Incorrect tools like Gamparse and

You haven't used it ever have you?

It is shockingly accurate for individual fights. It's a great tool and, I'd wager, far more accurate than whatever you do with a raw log and a calculator.

The only problem it has is when you highlight dozens of fights and hit the *combine* button. It still spits out accurate totals but you can't count on the calculated dps from there.

But ... you haven't used it ever have you?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is shockingly accurate...

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...postcount=5732

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep and the same parses [from Gamparse] showed a level 60 monk with Fist of Nature and 15/20 priceless wraps doing only 48dps [which is lower than Troxx expected]. I told you then and I'll tell you AGAIN that when you combine a whole wad of single fights into one composite fight that it [Gamparse] skews everything badly.

Shockingly accurate indeed. If the program cannot parse certain scenarios correctly, I do not trust it to parse other scenarios correctly. It's really that simple.

You know what is accurate 100% of the time? Providing raw logs and having multiple people parse them. When everybody has the data, they can double check your work. You and Bcbrown do that often!

When we don't have the logs, we have to trust a program that is proven to parse incorrectly at times. I don't know why you cling to a broken program so tightly.

[Troxx]

ok

lol?

[Snaggles]

Everyone here is just trying to figure out what is correct.
Time and time again it seems you are trying to justify you are correct.
These two concepts sound similar but ideologically they are not the same.

Luckily, condescension from someone bragging about level 5 turtle 10-key parses because they don’t trust log files and Gameparse doesn’t sting that badly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone here is just trying to figure out what is correct.
Time and time again it seems you are trying to justify you are correct.
These two concepts sound similar but ideologically they are not the same.

Luckily, condescension from someone bragging about level 5 turtle 10-key parses because they don’t trust log files and Gameparse doesn’t sting that badly.

When did I say I don't trust log files? What have you been reading? Log files are always reliable as long as they aren't tampered with. That's why I ask for log files.

Gamparse doesn't always work correctly. Troxx admitted as much. Why trust a program that only sometimes works? Give us the log files so we can make sure Gamparse didn't make a mistake.

I am not sure what forum you are reading to be honest. Either you are trolling or have reading comprehension issues. You have the situation completely reversed.

I am the one actually trying to figure out what is correct using the scientific method. Why do you think I have my Youtube channel? It's so I can post real data to support my positions. Most posters here don't do that at all.

Time and time again posters like Troxx supply no data to back up their claims, and then insult/lie about/spam/troll anyone who disagrees with them. They are the ones trying to justify they are correct without merit.

I am the one who is supplying detailed data and building a theory around what the damage formula looks like. I am using real P99 data and code from the EQEMU.

For people interested in that, please read this post:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=440

[Snaggles]

Gameparse can have some averaging problems (multiple fights and multiple people, an AFK is averaged as 0 dps) and might not pick people up for ranged fights with huge hit boxes. It is accurate though outside spell damage. If you are in a group that infrequently gets exp but occasionally when does, you can check that most your team was in the upper spectrum of the meter, which is why you got the yellow group message and can loot the corpse first.

Likewise I expect if you parse two people on one target outside spell damage the one with the highest parse will get the exp every time. Maybe this is fringe science but by golly it works.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gameparse can have some averaging problems and might not pick people up for ranged fights with huge hit boxes. It is accurate though outside spell damage. If you are in a group that I frequently gets exp but occasionally does a quick check will confirm most your team was in the upper spectrum of the meter, which is why you got the yellow group message and can loot the corpse first.

Likewise I expect if you parse two people on one target outside spell damage the one with the highest parse will get the exp every time. Maybe this is fringe science but by golly it works.

When you are trying to be as scientifically accurate as possible, you don't want averaging problems. You don't want bugs in the code to throw your parses off. You don't want to say "good enough" when you lose 20% of another players parse when you walk out of range. You don't want inaccurate spell damage.

I am not sure why people are so against providing logs when we are trying to be precise and figure out the damage formulas. Logs also give context to what you were doing, because that can matter sometimes.

It's not hard to do, and other people can parse it for you.

[Snaggles]

Again, there is no evidence gameparse is less accurate than a manually calculated log for the person running the software. It starts when you first hit the target and ends when it dies or you zone. Automating generally increases accuracy since human error is a variable.

Example: Parses in Sleepers with 30 foot tall translucent giants are not accurate as a general understanding of where you land on the raid meter. You might not be capturing everyone. A parse on a normal target where you are capturing 30+ people in Kael often is. Or since half a dozen people are running parses there is a general consensus of positions. Either way people are only using normal fights for a testing platform, this is why nobody is comparing their performance to another on Vyemm or Vulak with constant ins and outs. When people post this data, it’s also accurate enough nobody is starting /gu arguments contesting the results. If #1 place poster did 25k damage on KT and you did 26k damage on your own KT parse…you in-fact beat them. If people were getting real rewards for this still stuff it would be worth contesting the results or using dozens of parses to draw 3rd party averages to avoid cheating and increase consistency.

If the general population of active serious players believes a system is valid they are either all wrong and you are correct, or the contrary. I’ve been playing EQ since 1999 with 9 level 60’s on p99 and I’m a casual here. There are far smarter and more serious people than me on this server. Anyone who is serious parses because it gives you offensive and defensive data you could never get manually. The labor needed to manually tally thousands of raid kills to opine trends and incremental changes would be excessive to say the least.

I don’t mean to be rude, cynical, or cruel to you. Many of us have tried many times to explain our positions and the varied approach is often just a desperate attempt to finally land some shared understanding. Time and time again though it’s clear your mind cannot be swayed nor do you provide specifics which will allow us to suspend disbelief long enough to confirm. We all argues for about 10 pages why a level 5 turtle wouldn’t return accurate data. I’ve run hours on Bloodmaw controlling every variable and the data simply isn’t useful. I don’t take it personal wasting hours of my time, this is EQ… I just look for a better way.

In the end I wish I had dozens of epic fist/SoS parses at 60 on a level 70 target with buff consistency and another dozen with an IFS. I bet someone out there does presuming they kept track of the variables since the addition of epic bard and ranger buffs is about 100attack. I know this though, if their best parse on ____ after dozens of attempts was with a specific weapon setup it’s rational to conclude that to be the reigning setup. In my specific area of interest, Rip has my same weapons and has traditionally done better than me with them but also has had a Primal weapon longer (and is likely a better player). My best is still my 2h as is his best, one is just numerically less. Likewise my best parse on Vindi to no surprise is with a BFG/Swiftwind and casted avatar, as is his best. If his best was a random DW combination snd mine wasn’t, it would grounds for additional research and isolating the variables.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, there is no evidence gameparse is less accurate than a manually calculated log for the person running the software. It starts when you first hit the target and ends when it dies or you zone. Automating generally increases accuracy since human error is a variable.

You and Troxx say it has issues. Why do you admit there are problems in one post, and then pretend you didn't in the next?

You still can't explain why you can't provide logs either.

You can parse with simpler tools like word processing programs and simple programming code. I use notepad++ and some simple javascript code. This makes the process faster while removing the complexity and error from Gamparse.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gameparse can have some averaging problems and might not pick people up for ranged fights with huge hit boxes. It is accurate though outside spell damage.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep and the same parses [from Gamparse] showed a level 60 monk with Fist of Nature and 15/20 priceless wraps doing only 48dps [which is lower than Troxx expected]. I told you then and I'll tell you AGAIN that when you combine a whole wad of single fights into one composite fight that it [Gamparse] skews everything badly.

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Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the general population of active serious players believes a system is valid they are either all wrong and you are correct, or the contrary.

Argument from authority is a fallacy. Plenty of long time players still have incorrect ideas about the game. There is nothing wrong with that, except when it causes them to become closeminded, and assume they cannot be wrong.

I am also a long time player who parses a lot, but I actually admit when I am wrong. I don't assume I know everything just because I've played a lot. Anybody who claims otherwise is just strawmanning me. You can search the forums and find where I've admitted to being wrong.

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Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don’t mean to be rude, cynical, or cruel to you. Many of us have tried many times to explain our positions and the varied approach is often just a desperate attempt to finally land some shared understanding. Time and time again though it’s clear your mind cannot be swayed nor do you provide specifics which will allow us to suspend disbelief long enough to confirm. We all argues for about 10 pages why a level 5 turtle wouldn’t return accurate data. I’ve run hours on Bloodmaw controlling every variable and the data simply isn’t useful. I don’t take it personal wasting hours of my time, this is EQ… I just look for a better way.

Often times you and other posters are rude, cynical, and cruel. When posters act like this, it shows they probably don't know what they are talking about. If they were an expert who parsed all the time, it should be trivial for them to produce a bunch of logs, plug in the parsed results to the formula they believe is correct, and show us the formula matches the data. But they can't, or they won't. For an example of what I am talking about, read this post:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=440

I don't mean to be rude either. I prefer to have a civil discussion. But when multiple people are attacking me in every thread simply because I disagree with them, I end up having to spend a lot of time defending myself from obviouse nonsense.