monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[Ripqozko]

idk why yall dont just parse on like vindi and see what weapon options yall have. i get you done your 52 or whatever but for instance on ranger i promise no matter what 1h combo you use on a ranger i will beat it plain and simple with my cek sword. if you have the option to get a baton or kflame you have access to cek 2h as well. its not just a couple dps, its ~10-15dps difference. this isnt theorycraft, this is my years of parsing with it.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

idk why yall dont just parse on like vindi and see what weapon options yall have.

^ This

[Jimjam]

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I just want to say necro rogue pet has crazy hit distributions on these fm giants! (level 44 pet and -20 AC debuff)

[Duik]

Vindi refuses to use me as a parse subject (yes, mobs parse us as well) so I cant offer my data.

Dingodong whimpers insignificantly. This target is trivial and provides zero usefulness as a parse subject.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to say necro rogue pet has crazy hit distributions on these fm giants! (level 44 pet and -20 AC debuff)

Fascinating stuff, Jimjam. Wiki has the giants at level 50, so I'm surprised to see such a huge spike at max hit.

I looked at the giant's hits against DSM, and I saw some weak indications of something similar; 20% at min hit and 13% at max hit.

The other interesting thing I noticed was that your histrogram shows Jibartik with exactly 20 unique hit values. The giants were similar: almost all the values fell into 20 distinct values, but 1% didn't fit that pattern.

Everything I've seen when looking at player damage points toward that pattern not occuring in player hits. DSM's unique hit values on the giants, for example, ranges from 35 in mainhand punches to 93 in IFS hits.

This suggests a conclusion that:
* mob damage and player damage have different calculations
* player damage has something to add some noise to "smear" hit values across more unique values
* this difference in calculation, either intentionally or unintentially, leads to a high percentage of player hits at some value that's right around the average for that weapon.

There's some code in the EquEmu implementation that looks like it might be adding that noise:

	int basebonus = hit.offense - damage_table.minusfactor;
	basebonus = std::max(10, basebonus / 2);
	int extrapercent = zone->random.Roll0(basebonus);
	int percent = std::min(100 + extrapercent, damage_table.max_extra);
	hit.damage_done = (hit.damage_done * percent) / 100;

I'm starting to seriously wonder if this is a bug in the p99 codebase - I can imagine it might be intentional to treat mob and player damage rolls differently, but I find it harder to believe that the spike around the average value is intentional. I also wonder if the spikes at max and min hit are intentional.

Jimjam, you said you recalled a thread where Rogean discussed the damage calculations. Would you mind doing a little digging? All I could find were some patch notes without a lot of detail.

[Jimjam]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?p=690963 Third post in has link to code, someone else repeats it lower down. I don't know whether this has since been tweaked. I'm sure it has been as now I look it is a 2012 post! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


Here is how I found it:


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[bcbrown]

Ah, that thread wasn't as helpful as I had hoped. Thanks nonetheless.

I read Torven's thread you linked earlier and it was helpful. A couple things jumped out.

Torven has an appropriate attitude towards parsing. I already think he's credible:

Originally Posted by Torven

I produced hundreds (over 2.6 gigs worth) of logs over the last year and parsed them with a custom lua script that I also wrote which output the data in a way that I could easily paste into the spreadsheet. Many of these logs were overnight or even longer. A log generally needs to be several hours long to be useful; obviously the longer it is, the more accurate the estimates that can be derived from it.

Torven says the fact that NPCs only have 20 distinct hit values while players do not is intended, and that the spikes at the min and max hits are intentional:

Originally Posted by Torven

In EverQuest, melee damage rolls are one of twenty possible values. (I assume this is loosely modeled after Dungeons and Dragons somehow) Player characters also get an additional random multiplier on top of the d20 roll most of the time, but both NPCs and PCs will roll a d20 on melee hits. NPC hits that are not mitigated by vie buffs, rune buffs, disciplines, the innate warrior mitigation, or shielding equipment will always roll one of the same twenty possible values.

The probability distribution of rolling one of these twenty values follows a shallow bell curve such that DI10 and DI11 will appear more frequently than other values except for DI1 or DI20 when offense == mitigation. DI1 and DI20 appear the most frequently because the ends of the bell curve are compressed into those intervals. When offense == mitigation, DI1 and DI20 will both parse slightly higher than 15%. I call this the "double 15 point".

So the only potential bug is the spike around the average value that's ~10 percentage points higher than expected, but I don't know if it's worth making the bug report. I'd want an hourlong parse in order to have good enough evidence to make the case the spike is real, and I've got no research showing it's Not Classic.

[Eisai]

This thread recovered like a stuntman(person). Awesome job!

Didn't there used to be a theorycraft website for everquest? Moot, i know cause it was mid-pop but I'm really glad to see the mathFu turning over rocks even after the p99 servers have gone to pasture.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread recovered like a stuntman(person). Awesome job!

Amazing things happen when we stop having napkin math arguments on loop.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Torven says the fact that NPCs only have 20 distinct hit values while players do not is intended, and that the spikes at the min and max hits are intentional

Yes. This has always been the case. If you look back at the graphs I posted you will noticed 20 distinct hit values (except in those cases where I stacked enough AC you didn't see any of some of the upper DIs).