monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[Jimjam]

That is what I call manager maths.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I always laugh at how bad that Vexenu's analogy was. It has no relationship to P99 or my posts. I can't imagine the mental gymnastics involved when making it.

The simple fact that Troxx brought that up again shows his brain doesn't understand the flaws in the analogy.

Troxx thinks that telling people he will give you his parses and data for 150USD makes him look good. So I guess we can't expect too much from him.

It is clear he is living in a delusion, where he thinks his parses and data are flawless, but he can't share them with anyone. Nobody is worthy.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I always laugh at how bad that Vexenu's analogy was. It has no relationship to P99 or my posts. I can't imagine the mental gymnastics involved when making it.

Vexenu's analogy applies just fine to here. Let me show you why, it's really simple.

The fatigue that Usain Bolt would get by trying to run that fast/far is normal of humans, and we as human players here suffer from the same issue of having limited energy. You even admitted such a thing in this thread as you acknowledged laziness that people have from not utilizing the OH hit with the 2HB.

Being lazy means you do not wish to expend energy, which all people have varying capacities of but we all have a limit. It is the same reason a shaman cannot keep 12 mobs root rotted at a time to maximize dps and sustain it. You will likely burn out from fatigue after 10 minutes, not even factoring in the extreme difficulty of keeping up with timers, controlling mobs, etc. all while 2 other charm pets are churning through mobs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vexenu's analogy applies just fine to here. Let me show you why, it's really simple.

The fatigue that Usain Bolt would get by trying to run that fast/far is normal of humans, and we as human players here suffer from the same issue of having limited energy. You even admitted such a thing in this thread as you acknowledged laziness that people have from not utilizing the OH hit with the 2HB.

Being lazy means you do not wish to expend energy, which all people have varying capacities of but we all have a limit. It is the same reason a shaman cannot keep 12 mobs root rotted at a time to maximize dps and sustain it. You will likely burn out from fatigue after 10 minutes, not even factoring in the extreme difficulty of keeping up with timers, controlling mobs, etc. all while 2 other charm pets are churning through mobs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is physically impossible for Usain Bolt to sprint for 5 days nonstop.

Comparing sprinting for 5 days nonstop to playing a video game non-lazily for an hour or two is just silly.

[Troxx]

It’s sad that you still can’t see the forest, only the one tree in front of you.

Textbook concrete thinking …

Of course you also “didn’t get it” 2 years ago.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s sad that you still can’t see the forest, only the one tree in front of you.

Textbook concrete thinking …

Of course you also “didn’t get it” 2 years ago.

Troxx keeps pretending that if he is vague, he looks smart. People see right through this though. It is childish thinking. This is why he has "data" and "parses", he just can't share them.

Yet again, Troxx doesn't know what helps him or hurts him. Perhaps he will sell his interpretation of what he thinks Vexenu was saying for 150 dollars. That will surely make him look good.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m interested by this 15dmg is a min hit of 2 (presumably in offhand). Is this something only applying to monks with their improved damage tables?

Under what circumstances is this true? I know at low skill (offence?) and strength, hits are between double dmg and a twentieth of double damage. Is this the scenario we discuss? 15dmg*2/20

I'm interested in that as well. As DSM pointed out, his 9/16 epic fists did minimum damage of 1 offhand and 10 (1 + 9 damage bonus) mainhand. The offhand SoS (17/28) had a minimum hit of 2. The IFS had a minimum hit of 22; if the damage bonus of 18 is correct that means a "raw" minimum of 4.

Other interesting observations from his parses:
Epic fists, both mainhand and offhand, had some interesting damage distributions.

Mainhand fist had a max of 44, min of 10, and 130 total hits. 10 (or 8% of total) were for the minimum. 16 (12%) were for 27 damage. No other hit occurs more than 8 times, with a total number of unique hit values of 32. I think 27 is likely the midpoint of the damage interval; before accounting for the 9 damage bonus that's 18, or half of max hit of 35 before the 9 damage bonus. So mainhand fist can do between 1 and 35 damage before accounting for the damage bonus, or up to 4x the nominal damage of a 9/16 weapon.

Offhand fist had a max of 31, min of 1, and 38 total hits. Min only appeared once, but 18 damage appeared 10 times, or 26% of the time. Given we saw 44 (or 35 + 9) damage mainhand, I'd expect a max offhand hit of 35 versus the observed max of 31. I predict a longer parse would show a max offhand punch of 35 or 36.

SoS had a min of 2 and max of 66, and 76 total hits. The two most frequent values were 34 with 9 (11%) and 15 with 8 (10%). This tracks with the observation from mainhand fist, as 34*2 is 68, close to the observed max of 66. I predict a longer parse may show a max offhand crush of 68.

IFS had a min of 22 and a max of 169, with a total of 53 hits. The only anomalously frequent value is the minimum hit occuring 6 times, or 11%. Half of 169 minus the 18 damage bonus is 75, but nothing in the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s occurs more than three times.

The hit distribution (total hits divided by unique hit values) gives 4 for mainhand fist, 2 for offhand fist, 2 for offhand SoS, 1.3 for IFS.

DSM's monk has a strength of 144 and probably a 240ish offense skill. If (from the Game Mechanics wiki page) the modifier is ([Offense Skill] + [STR]) / 100, that gives us something like a 3.8-3.9 modifier which closely tracks the observed 4x modifier on mainhand punches.

A 4x modifier when combined with damage bonus would give a mainhand max punch of 45, an offhand max crush of 68, an offhand max punch of 36, and a mainhand max crush of 170. That correlates pretty well with the observed data.

The most interesting anomaly to me is the high proportion of hits at half damage and min damage with the fists. My guess is that a smaller max damage compresses the damage interval such that multiple intervals have the same damage output.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a thread where Rogean posts the formula for damage bonus on p99 including era/pvp server toggles iirc.

I would love to find that if you manage to dig that up.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The most interesting anomaly to me is the high proportion of hits at half damage and min damage with the fists. My guess is that a smaller max damage compresses the damage interval such that multiple intervals have the same damage output.

The probable cause of this has to do with how mitigation works. I don't have the exact formula at hand, but essentially AC and the other mitigation variables apply weight to your damage roll dice.

If the dice are weighted towards the lower half of all possible damage values, you'll naturally see more rolls on the lower half of the possible damage rolls. As far as I know there are no unique properties that change how this works for 1h weapons vs. 2h weapons.

[Ripqozko]

attack vs the mob ac is how your dice rolls for the higher end more frequently, ie: avatar wont make you hit harder but your roll chance for higher hit and thus better dps. its why 2h is superior, the streaky nature is lowered by higher attack allowing for better parses. thats why only like 3 mobs i use 1h cause ac is too high vs my attack. thats not all the formula but a basic.

edit: position of mob vs you will vastly change your dps too. mob flipping means mobs mitigation raises.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

attack vs the mob ac is how your dice rolls for the higher end more frequently, ie: avatar wont make you hit harder but your roll chance for higher hit and thus better dps. its why 2h is superior, the streaky nature is lowered by higher attack allowing for better parses. thats why only like 3 mobs i use 1h cause ac is too high vs my attack. thats not all the formula but a basic.

edit: position of mob vs you will vastly change your dps too. mob flipping means mobs mitigation raises.

This is a bit of a misunderstanding.

Let's say there are 100 possible damage values you can get, lets number them 1 to 100 so we can simply roll a d100.

Everquest does limit damage by imposing a maximum damage. If the maximum damage is 80, any roll of 80 or above will be clamped to 80.

This does mean you'll have a 20% chance to roll an 80 instead of a 1% chance, but that is actually a bad thing for DPS. It means any time you rolled a 100, you lost 20 damage due to it being clamped at

If you increase the maximum number you can roll on your damage roll, you will get more damage rolls that are at the maximum damage value. This is why you cast STR on your pet. Their maximum damage value doesn't increase, but the number of times you can roll above the maximim damage value does increase.

But ironically the more damage rolls you can get over the damage cap, the more damage you lose from the clamping.

I am not sure if 1h or 2h has an edge in that regard. I don't know if the 1h and 2h clamps are exactly proportional, or one of them hits the damage cap faster.