monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[Snaggles]

Did I say the Baton ranger was without Avatar? Even if he was, which he wasn’t, that 14dps gap isn’t being closed by Avatar. Maybe 7-8 or so.

Yea I got my claw and my whip before the 2h. With SCHW’s I was hitting high 60’s, I got a 72 or so with a spiked seahorse belt and Shissar. I’m not deleting them but they were bagged until I got my primal.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea I got my claw and my whip before the 2h. With SCHW’s I was hitting high 60’s [DPS?], I got a 72 [DPS?] or so with a spiked seahorse belt and Shissar.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’ve been parsing on Vindi for years. My best without avatar using Rip’s 2h is 74dps.

So you got 72 DPS from Claw/Whip and 74 DPS from Cek Sword.

That's a 2 DPS difference. I think you need to be more specific about these parses. Do you have 1h and 2h parse data that is using the same haste percentage and buffs?

For reference, I parsed my best 1h and 2h weapons on my SK:

https://youtu.be/P5ouLQOBAoE - Frostwrath

https://youtu.be/Py96jk2NflU - Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge

The difference in DPS between the two weapons was 5 DPS at worst. The ratios are very similar, 1.04 ratio on the 2h vs 1.09 ratio on the 1h.

[Eisai]

They are about the same then but the tank or soloist would riposte harder and receive fewer ripostes using 2h?

Which would be most affordable &/or attainable at the lowest level(30?)?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, if the current code were used for a classic server; would the limited choice of weapons change things?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They are about the same then but the tank or soloist would riposte harder and receive fewer ripostes using 2h?

Which would be most affordable &/or attainable at the lowest level(30?)?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, if the current code were used for a classic server; would the limited choice of weapons change things?

Ripostes are a factor, and 2h weapons riposte less. If you want to argue for 2h based on how many ripostes you get, that's a fair argument when the 1h and 2h weapon DPSes are close without fistweaving. Someone worried about ripostes would probably avoid fist weaving to minimize how many swings they do.

But a lot of people use DPS as the argument for 2h instead, claiming the 2h weapons are vastly superior DPS wise. I just want people to know the nuance of 1h and 2h weapon DPS, so they can decide which weapons make sense for them.

If someone is prioritizing DPS, they would choose the 1h option if the DPS was better. So we need to make sure people don't simply assume one weapon out DPSes the other based on 1h vs 2h. People need to remember that players used 1h a lot more than 2h before the 2h damage boost, and they were surviving the extra ripostes just fine.

Limited weapon choices does play a factor of course. Different classes have different options at different price points.

Monks are lucky because they can get a Peacebringer for 500pp. I don't think anyone has argued that Monks do not have great options in the 2h category for cheap. But this server is rather top heavy. There are players out there who just want the best DPS weapon, but perhaps haven't played melee class before. It's good for those players to know what options they have, as money isn't as big of a concern.

[Eisai]

I don't wish to argue ��. I am just gathering information. My experience with melee is mostly as a rogue and I'd like to fill the gaps in my knowledge base.

This peace stick looks nice but Kunark what is my best option pre-planes? Can ignore this if it's too off topic �� just seems like a thread full of informed people to query.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't wish to argue ��. I am just gathering information. My experience with melee is mostly as a rogue and I'd like to fill the gaps in my knowledge base.

This peace stick looks nice but Kunark what is my best option pre-planes? Can ignore this if it's too off topic �� just seems like a thread full of informed people to query.

Apologies. When I said "If you want to argue", I was speaking broadly. I wasn't specifically saying you were arguing it. The same goes for the rest of my post. I should have been more clear there.

If you are asking about the best Monk weapons from the Classic Continents excluding planes, that's a good question. I am not as experienced with Classic only P99. I started on P99 when Kunark was out, and I didn't play Green when it was in Classic only.

Just doing a quick search on the Wiki, bare fists are pretty good at level 50. They are 14/30 weapons at that point. The weapons from classic continents while excluding planes have a ratio of like 0.33 at best for Monks, 1h and 2h. Not sure if the pre-kunark filter is excluding a classic weapon with a better ratio.

Someone with more classic only knowledge will probably have a better answer.

[Snaggles]

No, my 13/19 and 14/18 with 41% haste, VoG, Focus and Ranger buffs has maxed at 66. My best 2h is 74.

I don’t know if that is the peak for either but the 2h is consistently better and as people mentioned we don’t have triple attack.

Monks have access to far more quality 1h weapons but still, I expect 2h edges them out until the very best. And if you have an Abashi it’s next-level.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, my 13/19 and 14/18 with 41% haste, VoG, Focus and Ranger buffs has maxed at 66. My best 2h is 74.

I don’t know if that is the peak for either but the 2h is consistently better and as people mentioned we don’t have triple attack.

Monks have access to far more quality 1h weapons but still, I expect 2h edges them out until the very best. And if you have an Abashi it’s next-level.

A baton of flame (13/17) has 10% better delay than the 13/19. Getting 70 DPS with Baton instead of 66 DPS with the 13/19 sounds reasonable. You said you saw a 70 DPS baton Ranger. So the difference between BiS 1h and BiS 2h for a ranger is roughly 4 DPS with your specific setup and data.

My point still stands that a Ranger who gets their 13/17 and 14/18 weapons first will probably out DPS all ranger 2h weapons except for Cek Sword and Shovel of the Harvest. The next best weapon is a Primal 2hb, which is 45/44. The ratio difference between Shovel (1.16) and Primal 2hb (1.02) is 0.14, which is a 13% loss in ratio.

That's good information to know when you are looking for what does the best DPS. 1h doesn't seem as far behind as people claim.

Raiding can be fickle. I remember Aftermath had a monopoly on Lady M for like 12 weeks. I went to every kill. I was looking for a Mithril Helm, and it never dropped after 12 consecutive kills. We did get so many Frostwraths we gave at least one away for free to a random guildie's alt lol. It's certainly possible to get unlucky on a Cek Sword or Shovel for quite a while.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A baton of flame (13/17) has 10% better delay than the 13/19. Getting 70 DPS with Baton instead of 66 DPS with the 13/19 sounds reasonable. You said you saw a 70 DPS baton Ranger. So the difference between BiS 1h and BiS 2h for a ranger is roughly 4 DPS with your specific setup and data.

My point still stands that a Ranger who gets their 13/17 and 14/18 weapons first will probably out DPS all ranger 2h weapons except for Cek Sword and Shovel of the Harvest. The next best weapon is a Primal 2hb, which is 45/44. The ratio difference between Shovel (1.16) and Primal 2hb (1.02) is 0.14, which is a 13% loss in ratio.

That's good information to know when you are looking for what does the best DPS. 1h doesn't seem as far behind as people claim.

Raiding can be fickle. I remember Aftermath had a monopoly on Lady M for like 12 weeks. I went to every kill. I was looking for a Mithril Helm, and it never dropped after 12 consecutive kills. We did get so many Frostwraths we gave at least one away for free to a random guildie's alt lol. It's certainly possible to get unlucky on a Cek Sword or Shovel for quite a while.

If you can get baton you can get cek, both are trips. I don't mind ya like 1h, but 2h parses better I've linked mine a lot over the years here.

Edit: I don't remember ya doing anything in aftermath and I was an officer.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point still stands that a Ranger who gets their 13/17 and 14/18 weapons first will probably out DPS all ranger 2h weapons except for Cek Sword and Shovel of the Harvest.

Yeah those are the only ranger usable 2handers in the game at that tier of quality.

Primals? Stellar for the proc and decent if you don't have better to swap to after the proc but they are not at all in the same ratio category.

I'm glad that you agree that tier for tier 2h weapons will out-dps dual wield. We are finally making progress.

The next best weapon is a Primal 2hb, which is 45/44. The ratio difference between Shovel (1.16) and Primal 2hb (1.02) is 0.14, which is a 13% loss in ratio.

And the difference between a primal velium 1hander 13/20 (0.65) compared to Baton of Flame 13/17 (0.76) is a 17.5% along with a 17% reduction in damage bonus (static for 1-handers - this phenomenon is not seen as much with any 2hander as it is delay dependent) dealt.

If you're gonna make comparisons, compare apples to apples. Primal to primal ... engdamge ratio to endgame ratio.

It just so happens that Rangers only have 2 weapons on their list:
-Harvest
-Cek sword

Monks get 4 options:
-Abashi
-VP
-Harvest
-Facesmasher

Warriors get 7 options
-4x 2hs out of ToV with higher tier ratio
-3x 2hb out of ToV with higher tier ratios

Knights get the most (8 options)
-3x 2hbs
-3x 2hs
-2x 2hp