monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[bcbrown]

I'm assuming 100% hit chance for off-hand after a 50% chance to successfully dual wield.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm assuming 100% hit chance for off-hand after a 50% chance to successfully dual wield.

Just reread yourself:

57 swings of SoS takes 159.6 seconds, so you'll have 57 DW chances and 28.5 successes. At 34 average damage that's 969 damage.

You said 57 chances and 28.5 successes. You are indeed assuming a 50% hit rate, which is fine.

In my previous post, I said you get 100 Epic Fist Swings per 40 IFS swings. The average damage of Epic Fist is 27.

27 * 100 = 2700, which is a 100% hit chance when looking at 100 swings. You need to divide 2700 by 2 and 3820 by 2 if you want to use the 969 number, which is the offhand swings at a 50% hit rate.

If you want to use 2700 and 3820, multiply 969 by 2.

You misread my post, plain and simple.

[bcbrown]

57 dual wield chances and 28.5 successes - i.e. actual swings that could hit or miss.

You'll have 57 skill checks against dual wield - once every 2.8 seconds unhasted. 28.5 times dual wield will succeed and you'll actually swing the offhand. At 100% hit rate on swings that's 969 damage.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just reread yourself:



You said 57 chances and 28.5 successes. You are indeed assuming a 50% hit rate, which is fine.

In my previous post, I said you get 100 Epic Fist Swings per 40 IFS swings. The average damage of Epic Fist is 27.

27 * 100 = 2700, which is a 100% hit chance when looking at 100 swings. You need to divide 2700 by 2 and 3820 by 2 if you want to use the 969 number, which is the offhand swings at a 50% hit rate.

If you want to use 2700 and 3820, multiply 969 by 2.

You misread my post, plain and simple.

By successes he wasn't adjusting for hit rate, he was adjusting for offhand swing chance.

I'll put it another way:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist

40 * 95.5 = 3820 damage from IFS.

27 * 100 = 2700 damage from Epic Fist.

Using the 48% dual wield rate from the video would be 48 swings from SoS.

34 * 48 = 1632 damage from SoS.

You are looking at 3820 damage from IFS vs 4332 damage from Epic + SoS at 100% hit rate. Most likely the dual wield chance is 50%, but 48% is better for steel-manning the argument.

You forgot that the SoS is slower; 28 delay vs 16 for epic fists. So you need to multiply the 1632 * 16/28 = 933; we are looking at 3820 IFS vs 3633 Epic + SoS.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By successes he wasn't adjusting for hit rate, he was adjusting for offhand swing chance.

I'll put it another way:


You forgot that the SoS is slower; 28 delay vs 16 for epic fists. So you need to multiply the 1632 * 16/28 = 933; we are looking at 3820 IFS vs 3633 Epic + SoS.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

57 dual wield chances and 28.5 successes - i.e. actual swings that could hit or miss.

You'll have 57 skill checks against dual wield - once every 2.8 seconds unhasted. 28.5 times dual wield will succeed and you'll actually swing the offhand. At 100% hit rate on swings that's 969 damage.

I think I see the confusion. Monks get a 75% chance to dual wield in terms of skill checks at level 50 if you want to fully break it down like that.

So you have 57 chances and 42 successes with SoS on a Monk. 2700 + 1428 = 4128 at 100% hit rate for Epic Fist + SoS vs 3820 damage from IFS at 100% hit rate.

[bcbrown]

Lmao you finally got the right result from your napkin math! Given your assumptions I agree with your conclusions. Good job! I'm proud of you!

I'm also glad you came around on the idea that a 2-3 minute parse is insufficiently long to draw any conclusions from.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lmao you finally got the right result from your napkin math! Given your assumptions I agree with your conclusions. Good job! I'm proud of you!

I'm also glad you came around on the idea that a 2-3 minute parse is insufficiently long to draw any conclusions from.

The parse was fine.

At the end of the day the IFS damage alone in the parse was 4883 - 564 punch damage = 4319 2h damage.

If you want to equalize the time, 4999 - 30.67 DPS * 8 seconds = 4754 1h damage.

The parse also shows the Epic Fist + SoS out-performing the IFS without fistweaving.

I would love to see you do a longer parse if you think you'll get a different result. You still have yet to provide any data in this thread.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think I see the confusion. Monks get a 75% chance to dual wield in terms of skill checks at level 50 if you want to fully break it down like that.

So you have 57 chances and 42 successes with SoS on a Monk. 2700 + 1428 = 4128 at 100% hit rate for Epic Fist + SoS vs 3820 damage from IFS at 100% hit rate.

I see. I interpreted you're comment about dual wield rate to be breaking it down like that rather than going off total parsed crushes/punches, although you indeed specified the latter the original parse post.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see. I interpreted you're comment about dual wield rate to be breaking it down like that rather than going off total parsed crushes/punches, although you indeed specified the latter the original parse post.

Yeah it was my bad for not being clear. I was going off of my parse for the 50% dual wield number. I had 209 main hand swings and 101 offhand swings in the parse, which is basically 50%.

When I saw Bcbrown divide 57 by 2 my brain was still thinking about that. You guys were talking about the actual skill check chance for dual wield, which is 75% for Monks at 50.

[Snaggles]

Hey another question, when soloing as a 52 monk (because we have to care about this) would you rather riposte for 25 damage or 250 damage?

Would you rather hit a necromancer npc for 3x the damage from Banshee Aura or just 1/3rd of the damage?

Better get another napkin to spin imaginary scenarios with!